Another grotesque adventure for the religion of peace. You don't even have to read the article. You know everything there is to know in the headline...but here's the link to the article if you really need it.

50 people murdered in a gay club massacre in Orlando

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I have not been following this one, you guys hold so many of these events now it is hard to keep up, can anyone tell me how long the gunman was actively shooting inside the building ?
I'm posting from an iPad in Blighty so thus the brevity - I had understood that the perpetrator was a natural born American rather than an immigrant so Trumps idea of preventing Muslims from entering the USA would not have had any effect. Is Trump's rhetoric now aimed at expelling existent Muslims from the USA? If so, he's going to have to fuck with the Constitution quite a bit...

Maybe his next solution is a wall to keep out Muslims?

That matches my understanding, the shooter's parents immigrated, he's a native born citizen.

He also wasn't even on the terrorist list, so having "being on the terrorist watch list" be a disqualifier for a gun purchase would not have stopped him.

So basically both sides are suggesting "solutions" that, had they been in place before the shooting, would have done absolutely NOTHING to stop this.

Our political class, on both sides of the aisle, has gone barking mad.

Soon, you'll be hearing the "Well, but if it saves just one life..."

I suspect that the only reason I haven't heard it yet is that I've been too disgusted to read more than a paragraph into any news about how they're going apeshit right now.  Generally because the "journalist" is joining them in doing so.

The thing is that the laws they talk about would be implemented through gun stores, but that leaves other markets and sources untouched. If I wanted a gun I could go to a gun forum and would probably discover a For Sale section, for example. Even Craigslist, where selling firearms is against their ToS, it happens...a lot. And then there are Craigslist-like sites where gun sales take place. Take, for example.

I don't know how private sales could ever be regulated without turning the country into something on the model of Ceaucescu's Romania, East Germany, or North Korea, where people are encouraged to report the activities of friends and relatives to a government agency. BTW, we seem to be going in this direction with demands that Muslims "see something, say something" when it comes to radicalization.

Take a look at this chart to understand where Americans get their guns. (source)


It's important to note that interstate sales of firearms are illegal without the participation of an FFL or two (Federal Firearms Licensee).  If you go to armslist or gunbroker, and read the fine print, you have to provide the seller the contact info and license number of whomever is going to handle the transaction in your state.  Once the sale is agreed on, the seller gives his firearm to an FFL in his state, that FFL ships it to your FFL, the federal NICS check occurs (Form 4473), and if you pass it, you get your gun.

Note that an interstate transfer MUST involve an FFL, and any transacton involving an FFL will involve the background check.  (States are allowed to opt out of the background check, BUT only in cases where someone has a permit that they can only get via a background investigation.  Some states, for instance, let you show your concealed carry permit in lieu of the background check.  Colorado is not one of them.)

The exception is any gun made (not designed, but actually made) before 1899.  Those can be mail ordered, because legally they aren't firearms.

Some states (famously Washington and Colorado, recently, have passed a requirement that ANY firearms transfer must go through an FFL so the background check can happen.  Colorado exempts transfers to close relatives; I don't know much about the Washington law.

If I go across the border from Oregon to, say, Idaho, buy a gun from a private party there, and return to Portland with the gun, is that regarded as an interstate sale?


It's also a really bad idea, legally speaking, to go to a gun show in another state and buy from a private part (non FFL) there.

I think there's some limited wiggle room for rifles, you can be from a neighboring state and buy from an FFL.

It's a redunant rule.  Even if you think it's a bad idea to have unchecked private sales, banning an interstate sale just because its interstate is silly; if I can show a dealer in Kansas my colorado ID and pass the same check I'd have to pass in Colorado, it's just ridiculous to ban the sale simply because it's Kansas.  It's a historical artifact; the ban on direct interstate sales is older (I believe it goes back to 1968) than the requirement that FFLs put you through a background check (1993 or '94), and serves no conceivable purpose now other than to annoy gun owners.  But try repealing a law.

Well, the interstate thing is the standard rule that makes it a situation the Feds can horn in on. But it is silly to the extent that, for example, Portland, Oregon, where I live, is right on the Oregon/Washington border. The much smaller city across the river, Vancouver, Washington is virtually a suburb.

It's also a really bad idea, legally speaking, to go to a gun show in another state and buy from a private part (non FFL) there.


The interstate thing doesn't bite me, because Colorado Springs is two to three hours away from a state line.  (The idea of hopping into a car and going into another state just like that, or of crossing a state line without even realizing it, is just...weird to me.)

Going to a gun show in another state to buy a gun?  It's another violation of the interstate transaction rules.  Now it's unlikely you'd get caught unless an ATF agent sees you walk out to your car and sees another state's plate on it.  It's also a lot harder to manage if you're in a state where all guns sold at a gun show must go through the check (Colorado has had that rule for over a decade).

Washington, by the way, has a universal background check law; widely ignored but I bet it's enforced at their gun shows.

You're correct about the interstate sale being a standard thing for Fed intervention; the rationale for them being able to do it back then was it was "interstate commerce" which they are allowed to regulate (the original intent supposedly being to prevent states from erecting trade barriers--though if so, I wonder why the Framers didn't just prohibit that, instead of giving the fedgov power to do a lot more than just prevent it.)  Anyhow, the courts have held for decades something doesn't have to cross a state line to be regulated: so long as they can argue it affects an interstate market.  (One wonders what the federal government is still thought to be forbidden to do.)


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