This is meant to be a hysterical thread for any jokes you want to make about this topic but also to serve as a serious place for me to understand further how Atheists think...

I considered myself an Atheist for quite a while but it just never felt right. I wasn't really being "me," but I was trying to please someone else...anyway....now I'm being me. I DO think there is a TON of evidence and proof that God does in fact exist.

But this thread is not about me. It's about you. I want to know what would it take for you to say, "YES that's it!" What "evidence" or "proof" are you looking for? What EXACTLY would you need to see to be able to say, "Wow yes, there is a God..."....A scientific journal article? A scientific experiment? Richard Dawkins saying it? lol...What? What could possibly persuade you to suddenly believe that there is a God.

And because I know it's probably going to happen there are some rules for participation

Rule #1. No spinning this back on me. I'm asking YOU what YOU think. If you want to ask me what i think start a different thread for that.

Rule #2. No ducking the question. Saying, "the "onus" is on you to prove." No. That's not going to fly here. We're not discussing the "on us" argument. We're discussing what would it take for you to be convinced. A lightning bolt up your ass on a sunny day? A surfer Jesus knock on your door? lol...OK I'm being sarcastic. But seriously WHAT?

Have at it!

Views: 4000

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Seeing the FSM over the entire USA.  Yea, I'd like to see that.

I'd be interested in something - an object, a behaviour, an event, a creature - that cannot be explained without invoking God.

There used to be hundreds of examples of this - the sun, lightning, earthquakes, the existence of apparently designed beings, eclipses, etc, etc. As we learn more and more there are less and less things that cannot be explained more satisfactorily another way.

We still have mysteries - the creation of the universe, the infinity of the cosmos, etc. I am willing to concede there is a small possibility that a powerful being is responsible for this but this explanation doesn't offer anything useful to me. Saying that God created the universe is the same as saying the universe created itself, for me. Both explanations have the same explanatory power.

Ok Simon, but let's say that some evidence was available. What EXACTLY would you need to see to be able to say, "Wow yes, there is a God...".

When you say an object, a behaviour, or an event. I could easily say this sort of stuff happens all the time....what specifically is your own caveat that has to be met to be considered objective evidence, (since I know subjective evidence does not fly).

It would have to be something that could not be explained without God. You say things happen all the time but what things happen that can't be explained without God? If there really is no other explanation for something than God then I would consider it.

Ok, I'll give you an example from my own life. This is a TOTALLY true story which I CAN prove. It's a bit of a long story so I'll try to summarize it...

In April of 2015 I did a DNA test through Ancestry.com. I was adopted and wanted to find my biological parents. Given the fact that it was very expensive to do it through the courts I figured I would pay my $100.00 and find out as much as I could that way first.

I found several people who were related to me through DNA, but the closing matching relatives that had also taken the DNA test were showing up as second and third cousins on my mom's side. Problem. My biological mother was ALSO adopted. No one knew anything about her. They didn't know she existed. Because my second cousin was such a close relation it wasn't hard to speculate who the father was (my grandfather). But no concrete answers.

I felt so close yet so far...it drove me crazy!!! To be that close and yet still have zero answers.

After weeks of sleepless nights and ruminating about finding my parents I concluded that I needed to put it to the side. It was distracting me from school and work and wasn't good for me. So I signed out of ancestry.com and forgot about it for many months.

Then last December I went home - to NM - and I COULD NOT STOP THINKING ABOUT MY BIOLOGICAL PARENTS. Furthermore - I HAD A VERY VERY STRONG FEELING THAT I WOULD FIND THEM WHILE I WAS THERE!!!!!!!

I put that in caps because I'm not shouting at you, lol but I mean I could NOT shake off the feeling that I was going to finally meet them. I doubted this feeling because it seemed too good to be true. But something was telling me I was GOING to find them. It drove me nuts for about a month prior to the trip, and VERY strong when I was on the plane....

What would you know....

LOW AND BEHOLD....

I logged into my ancestry.com account fir the first time in months about a day after Christmas just to see what it looked like. And damn it if I didn't have a match for my BIOLOGICAL AUNT and my 1st cousin!!!!! (on my DAD's side of the family). Luckily the first cousin had used her real name and so I looked her up on facebook and sent her a message. Both of their ancestry profiles showed that they hadn't logged in for a couple of months so I didn't know if I wrote them on that site if they would see it right away...The message on facebook worked. She saw it right away and gave me her mother's phone number. That day I called her and I told her everything I knew about my birth story. I said that based on the DNA she is my aunt so one of her brothers is my biological father!

She listened patiently and at the end said, I'll tell you what - let me make some inquiries and I'll call you back in a couple of days...

....she called me back THAT afternoon! And said, "Yes. My brother is your biological father and here is his phone number....." I called him right away!! He told me the name of my biological mother. She was still in the same city and they had remained friends. I could not find a phone number for her and he didn't have it either, so I gave him the most likely address I could find for her and he went over there in person, knocked on her door and said, "your daughter wants to meet you!" She called me....and the rest is history.

I was able to drive down there, (I was already in NM and it was only 3 hours away) - and I got to meet the majority of my Dad's family and my mom and my siblings, nieces and nephews....

It was.........................amazing

There are no words....

So....YOU TELL ME....How you would explain that.

That was God. 100% God. There is no other explanation that I will accept for that. There is no scientific experiment that could prove how I KNEW that it was time. And that it was going to happen. Science advances allowed the DNA test to even be possible.

But there is no explanation as to how I knew I was going to find them. That was absolutely supernatural.

Read your story. That was so cool. And i have wondered about ancestry.com. Glad ya got to meet them. It must have felt like such a void in your life.

But it is not god. It is not even mysterious. Ya see in a universe in which pairings which we designate as coincidences have so many opportunities, it is inevitable that some of the pairings or coincidences will seem inexplicable as all hell.

I had one in college. I had to do a term paper in a class about american indians. And i was at a loss what topic i should investigate. So i went to the phone booth (yeah that is right...my shit old) and called my dad. He said why don't ya write about Pontiac's rebellion. At the exact same moment outside the phone booth stood a buddy who had a book opened to a chapter that said Pontiac's rebellion. I was so floored. It took me a few minutes to realize it was just a strange coincidence and it felt the more strange cuz i had only ever heard of the car and not the man, nor the historical event.

And it is also notable that we tend to forget the times we "know things" and then it turns out we do not know those things. It is just that you had an incidence with a strange and life changing coincidence.

Firstly, I believe your story. It's also heartwarming. You were thinking about your biological parents a lot and then you had a strong feeling you were going to meet them. That's understandable given the emotional impact of the situation. If I'm reading what you wrote correctly you then logged into the site after months of not using it. That seems to follow, given you were thinking about it a lot. Because you hadn't logged in for ages you then saw the new information on there and acted on it. You made it happen yourself. It all sounds quite straightforward to me.

I know you don't want to hear this, Belle, but it's classic post confirmation bias. You can say now you knew you were going to find them because you in fact did. That's a report after the fact. That's not supernatural, it's just how our brains work.

I know you won't believe that and you are welcome to think it was God if that works for you but nothing happened in that story that couldn't have happened without God.

But the fact that my AUNT and COUSIN also took the DNA test (for other completely different reasons) - and the timing of everything - the way it played out perfectly.....Too many things had to line up just perfect for that to happen the way it did.

Same thing with our own existence. Too many things have had to line up just perfectly for us to even be able to ponder this question. It's not at all "random" or a "coincidence." I just don't buy that. There is SOMETHING behind that....

I know you don't believe what I believe and I'm not asking you to....I'm just wanting to know - if you continue to say over and over there is no evidence of a god, "What EXACTLY would you need to see to be able to say, "Wow yes, there is a God..."

If you are TRULY open to the chance that a God exists. How would God need to prove that to you?

Same thing with our own existence. Too many things have had to line up just perfectly for us to even be able to ponder this question. It's not at all "random" or a "coincidence." I just don't buy that. There is SOMETHING behind that....

Do you also believe that a puddle of water thinks that hole in the ground was made perfectly for the water to fit in?

Our existence, as you will know from following the posts on this site for a long time, is absolutely not random or a coincidence. The processes of evolution are exactly the opposite of chance.

You keep asking me EXACTLY what I would need but what is missing in my request? I would need something that cannot be explained any other way than by invoking God. If you want an example then your imagination is the limit. The appearance of a three horned goat made of diamonds hovering around me reciting Shakespeare? What's the use of giving pointless specific examples of something supernatural.

The processes of evolution are exactly the opposite of chance.

Huh?

The processes of evolution are exactly random chance mutation, followed by natural selection.  With some epigenetic twists.

You'll have to forgive me, Bob, it's a turn of phrase I use to make a point to people who use the "tornado in a junkyard" argument. Obviously there is a random element but the important bit is the natural selection - the part that is the opposite of random.

RSS

© 2021   Created by Rebel.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service