This is meant to be a hysterical thread for any jokes you want to make about this topic but also to serve as a serious place for me to understand further how Atheists think...
I considered myself an Atheist for quite a while but it just never felt right. I wasn't really being "me," but I was trying to please someone else...anyway....now I'm being me. I DO think there is a TON of evidence and proof that God does in fact exist.
But this thread is not about me. It's about you. I want to know what would it take for you to say, "YES that's it!" What "evidence" or "proof" are you looking for? What EXACTLY would you need to see to be able to say, "Wow yes, there is a God..."....A scientific journal article? A scientific experiment? Richard Dawkins saying it? lol...What? What could possibly persuade you to suddenly believe that there is a God.
And because I know it's probably going to happen there are some rules for participation
Rule #1. No spinning this back on me. I'm asking YOU what YOU think. If you want to ask me what i think start a different thread for that.
Rule #2. No ducking the question. Saying, "the "onus" is on you to prove." No. That's not going to fly here. We're not discussing the "on us" argument. We're discussing what would it take for you to be convinced. A lightning bolt up your ass on a sunny day? A surfer Jesus knock on your door? lol...OK I'm being sarcastic. But seriously WHAT?
Have at it!
We're not at all discussing what or which god etc. That would detract from my question. My question is: What EXACTLY would you need to see to be able to say, "Wow yes, there is a God..."
Then "God" shouldn't be capitalised. Capitalising it makes it a name, rather than a synonym for deity.
Doubtless, you are familiar with extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But what does that mean?
Lets suppose there is some crypto-bullshit pheonomenon that you strongly suspect is fabricated. Lets say bigfoot. You have seen the guy in the costume and the footprints and the additional "evidence". You have written it off as phoney. What would you require to be convinced of bigfoot? I would want a bigfoot. Huge animals, so how can their fossils and corpses if not their day to day lives evade us. Seems highly improbable. Show me the money.
Lets say you are an atheist and realize that religion and its mythology is manmade and cultures have largely filched gods and mythology from one another. It is an affront to your way of thinking to suppose that primitive/ignorant and sometimes delusional people from the distant past are positing knowledge of ultimate reality. Furthermore the idea of personal gods is a human conceit in a universe of incomprehensible dimensions. So what do you need to be convinced?
That is up to god. I am a highy reasonable person. I can be persuaded because i am not bound by faith. Gods are conceived as omnipotent and omniscient. So it should be no effort on part of god to make itself known. If god can not do that god is not god. And if god can do it and chooses not to then god is a cosmic prick who makes Stalin and Hitler look like cute kittens. Yes, doing so could make a tremendous difference to civilization. No more of the thousand plus religions and all of the strife that the polarization causes by virtue of persons who suppose they know what the fuck it is all about. I could rant here. But the bottom line is that atheists are not the ones who agreed to surrender their evolution-given, brain-based ratiocination. We are mostly reasonable people.
I couldn't really find an answer in all of your answer Jake, but this was a start:
Quote: "Gods are conceived as omnipotent and omniscient. So it should be no effort on part of god to make itself known. If god can not do that god is not god."
Again the question is: What EXACTLY would you need to see to be able to say, "Wow yes, there is a God..." What do you consider evidence?
Belle, I am open to being convinced.
How can gods with attributes as aforementioned fail to convince me?
It is literally limitless the things that would convince us atheists. You have all kinds of flip answers already. The point is that one has become something less than human in terms of potential when one posits the existence of gods/mythology and does so by willingly suspending disbelief in this one area alone.
You have all kinds of flip answers already.
Mostly magic tricks. If you all were taken in by such magic tricks you must think Vegas magicians are angels!
My question is why do you think God is trying to convince you?
Any one of billions of possibilities would work for me. I only require objective evidence. My standard may be higher than most, but this should be not an issue at all for a true GOD.
-Stopping all suffering would be a great start, right god? We know you can heal, you told us so...go for it. -Teach us all knowledge...why hold out? we are made in your image...are you a dumb ass or something? -Give us Justice...you say you are a just God...
-Pick up the empire state building and bring it to my street.
Transform Haiti into a garden paradise next weekend. Make your fuckin followers all love and embrace the LGBT community, you say you are a god of love.
I'll be here all week.
In response to _Robert_ let's see some amputees grow their limbs back overnight.
So Robert it sounds like you would want God to intervene in a MAJOR way...
How do you know this hasn't already happened?
Also, Suffering for one - has many root causes. Suffering in third world countries has more to do with the power and control dynamic between nations and people and the availability of resources. It is 100% because of how we - humans - have organized our governments, laws, regulations, etc. A lot of suffering in the world is actually CAUSED BY the horrendous over consumption of resources BY THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES!!! If we wanted to end suffering and poverty we have it within our means to do so in a major way. And yet we sit back and....don't.
Picking up the empire state building? Really? So it sounds like you would want God to defy the laws of physics and do something flashy. What if God could be known through the laws of physics? Hmmmmm....
Transform Haiti into a garden paradise?
Making its followers love and embrace all members of the LGBTQ community - This is one area where the church gets it wrong. Totally wrong. And I think it's rooted in backwards teaching and a misinterpretation of the Bible, power and control tactics etc. Especially given that the Catholic church was really created as a means of rule/power/control with the purpose of governing. But the church as we know it and the way it has evolved is not....actually....perfect by any stretch of the imagination. The Catholic Church exists for one thing only and it is not to glorify God. It is to control people. And the oppression of the LGBTQ community from ALL religions is a stark example of how we have gotten it WRONG.
Suffering for one - has many root causes
None of which would stop an omnipotent being from eliminating suffering...
And yet we sit back and....don't.
The point, in this case, isn't to eliminate suffering... the point is to give god something to do to show himself.
What if God could be known through the laws of physics?
Then why call it god?
misinterpretation of the Bible
Are you sure about that? What about http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/lev/20.html#13 ? Here let, me quote it for you:
If a man has sex with another man, kill them both.
That's an explicit order, from god, to kill gay men. How is it being misinterpreted?
God is all powerful, all doing and all everything. He let the rains flood for 40 days. He created an enormous burning inferno in the middle of the planet. He let Moses part the Red Sea. I think he's broken the laws of physics, has done flashy things and has clearly revealed his existence through incredible deeds (at least according to the unverifiable document that is the book of fiction known as the bible). So it is simply preposterous that you would dismiss Roberts expectation of God doing something that demonstrates the incredible powers people say God has and clearly unambiguously reveals himself. You dismiss it...but you don't give a sound critical reason why this is simply too unreasonable to ask of God or beyond what an all powerful and all doing God should be expected to do. Picking up the Empire State building is peanuts in comparison to floods, and hell fires and the parting of 1000 meter deep seas. It's not unreasonable because he could do it with the snap of a finger, supposedly has done it many times in the past...but curiously stopped doing so once we reached a sophisticated enough method for verifying certain claims through sound sources and rational arguments. I would do the same if I were a theist...as deep down I'd be terribly embarassed by the fact that God has been silent and absent for centuries...so clearly we must look to unfalsifiable evidence like your own opinion, or speculation per how God might turn the world into paradise without showing himself or how God might answer our prayers through indirect means. It's a way to hold onto your delusion in a world where high quality of evidence is absolutely nowhere to be found.
Parting the Pacific Ocean.
Starting in Seattle Washington so I can find the silver plate I accidentally dropped overboard there.
Wait I have a better one. Rearrange the stars and galaxies in the night sky to spell out my name.
Neither of these would be a problem for the creator of the entire Universe.