If I were God, I'd know the entire history of the universe forever, future as well as past, I'd also know in advance every one of my own acts.

Oh, but wait, there's a dilemma there, isn't there?

Either God is bound by his future acts and has no free will, or he isn't omniscient at all because he doesn't know the future.

I call this The Problem of Omniscience.

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Right on.  God has no free will.  Cannot change the pre-known future else he loses his omniscience.  The flip side is that it is therefore impossible for god to answer prayers.  What will be will be.  God is powerless to change or prevent an unfortunate future event.  So why bother praying?


He knew you were going to pray, so, when he commenced the big bang, he made sure the plasma, etc, was going to t put all the quarks and leptons and force carriers that were going to form many millenia later in such a way that your prayers would already be answered, and, there would be foot prints on the beach to show when he carried you, and pictures of his kids on toast and mold stains.


The uncertainty principle applies even to an all knowing god

We can thank Heisenberg for this gem of provable quantum physics

I'm not sure I agree with that.

"Knowing Everything" doesn't mean able to change anything.


ALL of the hyperbole about god's omniscience and omnipotence and perfection, is from the Catholic Church.

Consider gods, historically...were any perfect?  Did they make mistakes?  Even in the Old Testament, God 1.0 had some problems, was jealous, lost battles, regretted some actions, etc.

So, even if there WAS a god, there's really ZERO evidence it would be perfect, everlasting, all knowing, all powerful, etc.

In mythologies, gods even died/were killed...so even immortality is fragile.

So, attributing assumed attributes is not a reliable practice.


"Knowing Everything" doesn't mean able to change anything.

If it can be changed, in what sense is it "known"? Certain knowledge in that case collapses into knowing all the potentialities. Not really the sort of omniscience we attribute to a real god.

Well, you can "Know" it is raining.

It might stop raining in the future.


The point I made was that being all knowing (not possible) doesn't make you all powerful (Also not possible).


When you're all knowing you are impotent because you know what's going to happen but can't do anything about it, at least not without finding your godly self impaled on the horns of a paradox.

Quite true.

Of course, its only a hypothetical issue, as neither skill set exists.

If you wanted to consider having both though, all you'd need to do to make it happen is to have already know what was going to happen, and why...and the reason why is because you made it happen that way.

You would of course never change your mind, as you knew everything already.

So, instead of god, we have, oh, lets say, physics.

The rules are established, the pin ball plunger is released, the ball shoots up into the pinball game...and, 14 billion or so years later...here we are.


The problem with this argument is the problem with the "science" of logic. We are forced by the conventions of logic to accept basic premises - they are irrefutable. Hence , as this proposition shows we can conclude there is NO god, using other basic premises we can conclude the MUST be a god

The blessing of using the scientific method is that it questions even the basic premises. One example. Relativity allows for the arrow of time to go backward as well as forward. Our practical experience is that it goes forward only. So research goes on and inevitably the results should do one of two things. The arrow can go back as well as forward OR the relativity theorems will be altered as surely Newton's theory was changed

That change was that time and space was not universal and lo and behold SpaceTime became the new entity. Time varied according to gravity (slower around objects with strong gravitational force) and space curved sound these objects

Only recently they have discovered the gravitational pull of the moon can affect rainfall here on earth ( So let's pray to the Moon Godess tee tee)

It would be the gravitational push, not pull.

The warping of spacetime pushes objects together.


Wow.  I try to make a trite "uncertainty" joke and I trigger a thread.  Or did I?

(Whoops, there I go again.)


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