Okay, so I frequent an online chat room moderated by youtube apologist/egomaniac Shockofgod.  I have to say about him and the experiences I've had with other atheists and christians there, but there's just one small point that strikes me as odd.


It seems to me that, at least in that forum, the longer a religious discussion goes on, the more likely it is that it will tend to become a Physics discussion... in other words, not a religious discussion.  I think this is odd because physics is a field of study that the average person knows little to nothing about.  I'm going to be taking Physics in college next semester, and I personally wouldn't have been eligible to sign up for it if I didn't have adequate grades in Calculus (and I suspect that the courses I took in Chemistry will come in handy too).  Consequently, I'm amazed that your average joe christian who lacks formal education (and might even be adverse to "evil" colleges) feels that, after reading a couple articles on *enter website here,* they are an expert on the subject qualified enough to ram their "knowledge" down other people's throats and ignore all opposition.  So, if you ever want to live through the surreal experience of being lectured on the intricate details of a field of study as complicated as fucking PHYSICS by a thirteen year old christian apologist who owes his confidence to a couple articles found on Answers In Genesis, then by all means, go visit Shockofgod's online chat room.


So why Physics?  I'll tell you why; it's a copout.  It's a cover for an otherwise general lack of evidence of the existence of any god.  For instance, you'll hear numerous modern christians opining that their god is "beyond mankind's capacity of understanding" or that he "exists somewhere outside the universe."  Well here's something to consider:  NOBODY knows what exists outside the universe.  Isn't awfully revealing that apologists cherry-pick some intellectual grey-area and plant their god there, all the while professing absolute confidence in their being correct?  Why not plant a god in a place that humans have significantly more knowledge of?  The answer is this:  It's been done before.  Once you understand that religious types once said that gods lived on mountains (before we explored them), and then they said that they lived in the sea (before we explored it), and then they said they lived somewhere in the sky, or space (before telescopes or before we understood exactly what clouds, the sun, and the moon are), and NOW some of them say that god exists somewhere "outside" the universe, then you've discovered what I call the "retreating god" dilemma.  Every time we learn something new, the discussion changes.  And now it's physics.  Well, whatever.


My first exposure to Physics was in my junior year of high school.  I never thought it'd be relevant to my career in the future, so I skimmed by with B's and C's.  I wasn't the only one; in general, the entire class seemed indifferent to Physics.  If only I or my instructor knew that the key to getting adolescents interested in Physics is religion, then maybe I would have invested more interest in the subject.


Anyway, in the interest of making this a discussion instead of a rant, have any of you had this experience before?  Better yet, have any of you ever felt that a christian could convert you with a Physics related subject like the Big Bang?  I ask because I've met christians who claim to have been atheist who became christians once they "learned" about physics.

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"Science, it works, bitches!"

I like that quote.




I like this "retreating god" idea. Catchy! I definitely do see it, and agree with you wholeheartedly.

Learning about physics, I mean actually learning about it, would cause you to renounce religion, not convert to it.
It is an interesting hypothesis, but then how would you explain the phenomena of religious scientists not just educated in science but among the nation's leading experts?
I think that a lot of people with religious feeling don't feel the need to analyze their religion very deeply.  Particularly I've known people who don't understand the utility of questioning a religion that has almost no consequence in their life.  Ironically, a lot of religious people, I've found, are "blissfully ignorant."

Thanks!  I first got the idea listening to a youtuber.  I think it was Aronra.

That sounds like most conversations that most people have about physics. Generally speaking people have little understanding of science at all, let alone physics.
I've been in a debate/discussion most the night now and it has almost turned to physics a couple times. I kept this discussion in mind as I said, "Well, I'm not a scientist but I saw one on tv and he said..." Anyway, it was rather funny because just as you said it was the theist who jumped into physics to try to create a god-in-the-gaps argument.
I know right?  People in debates should be modest enough not to venture into topics they know very little about.  Unfortunately, saying "I don't know" about anything, even the most complicated of topics, can be a death knell if the person you're talking to is acutely immature.
ShockofGod is a deceptive, egotistical, pompous prick and that is speaking well of him at best. I went to his chat-room once and the man would not let me speak and when I did have a time to speak I was cut off when he felt he was losing the argument. He had a 15 year old as a moderator begging me to cuss so he could ban me. Im surprised that the discussion even got far enough to physics without shock screaming that all atheists are stupid and evil.
Shock is habitually vitriolic and insensitive.  That's a whole other topic though haha

It is a pretty common thing. Even very educated theists like Deepak Chopra butcher physics, trying to make their point. He did that during his 2010 debate with Michael Shermer & Sam Harris "Does God Have a Future". 

You can check out the whole debate on youtube - here is the link to the first video(of 12).


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