Here is an interesting case from Laurin Belgg's book, Near Death in the ICU. I do not know how any skeptic could potentially debunk this, as this experience pretty much proves that the soul exists in my eyes. What do you think?
It involves a man who suffered cardiac arrest and had to be resuscitated. After he had recovered sufficiently to talk, he described an NDE that took place while he was unconscious:
I felt myself rising up through the ceiling and it was like I was going through the structure of the building. I could feel the different densities of passing through insulation. I saw wiring, some pipes and then I was in this other room.
It looked like a hospital but it was different.… It was very quiet and it seemed like no one was there. There were individual rooms all around the edge and on some of the beds were these people, except they were not people, exactly. They looked like mannequins and they had IVs hooked up to them but they didn't look real. In the center was an open area that looked like a collection of work stations with computers.
Dr Bellg, a critical care physician, says her jaw dropped when she heard this. She writes:
I stole a look at the nurse who looked equally surprised. What we knew that Howard didn't, is that right above the ICU is a nurse-training center where new hires spend a few days rotating through different scenarios. There are simulated hospital rooms around the perimeter with medical mannequins on some of the beds. In the center there is indeed a collection of workspaces with computers.
The patient also repeated statements made by Bellg during the resuscitation effort, when he was being defibrillated, and accurately reported who was present during the event.
How could a man under Cardiac arrest get this information?
How could a man under Cardiac arrest get this information?
Can you think of any rational explanations? I can think of a few off the top of my head.
like what? I think some of these OBEs sound so impressive that it is hard to imagine how someone could go to a different room and report things they couldn't have known about.
Lets see....he used to work there, his sister worked there, he's lying, he heard the class upstairs (people generally go in and out of conscientnous, especially when they are injecting you with steroids) she's lying to fill up a book....she has an agenda obviously.
Since we evolved from single celled animals..at what point does a soul enter the picture? All life is so very similar. Oh except for us, we have souls that live forever.
When someone comes back and has some actual knowledge about our universe gained from some other realm besides I saw light or floated or saw uncle joe, well then I would be all about the soul.
Being self aware leads us to all this bullshit, it's unfortunate really because the truth is ignored in favor of our desires.
Its the same with the son of god...didn't tell us anything we didnt know...the creator of a universe that is so grand that it is unimaginable... is only concerned that a semi evolved primate believes in him without evidence. How silly.
Violeta you come back to similar questions gin n agin. I suggest you read those who debunk, discredit and expose the charlatans. You have had your fill of BS.
To get a complete picture listen to both sides...proponents and naysayers.
One thing to take note of with these kinds of narratives are the various devices that emphasize the confirmation of a supernatural story and yet quickly rush by the part where the person is making a questionable claim.
In this case, the story focuses on the nurses who are breathless as the person tells this story. Forget about the many ways he could have had this information previously, what's important is how shocked the women are and how their reaction confirms his claim and adds a spooky element that fulfils any bias you had.
So what are the possible ways he could have known this?:
He already knew about the place with mannequins and either didn't mention it or knowingly concealed it.
He had good reason to work out (consciously or subconsciously) that there was a room something like with mannequins.
He was conscious to some degree while under anaesthetic and overheard the nurses talking about it (this has been documented and has explained some OBEs).
He ranted on about a hallucination which in this case, happened to resemble to some extent the room upstairs.
The nurses picked up on a small detail he mentioned and then somehow morphed the story into one where the patient gives an extreme description.
If this guy had described half a dozen different people in that room and some of the things that the individual people had said, then I'd be intrigued...but with cables (which you find between every floor in every building) and mannequins...I'm not bound to fall for this one. If you had all those descriptions and it was done under a controlled enviroment (no way for a person to communicated anything between the two different rooms, someone recording both rooms as well as the patients description) and his story was right...then I'd be quite intrigued.
I do not know how any skeptic could potentially debunk this
The thing about skepticism is this: You don't need to debunk anything... only examine the evidence presented, and either believe it, or not. In this case, I'm going to go with the latter.
NDE's, as you have been shown again and again...but, chose to ignore for some reason, perhaps, a need to believe in them overriding common sense, etc...are bunk.
The MAIN reason they are bunk, is that ALL involve people who have stopped HEARTS AND WORKING BRAINS.
NO ONE has come back from a dead BRAIN, and, no one who had an NDE had no brain waves.
IE: Their BRAIN is still operating, but, with a lack of oxygen, and, under the influence of any combination of chemicals we release under duress and are GIVEN at the hospital, etc.
So, the BRAIN hallucinates whatever it was culturally inclined to, as the reported hallucinations vary from region to region as to details, but have in common EXACTLY what happens when we simulate the brain conditions present after the heart stops.
After that important fact....the next issue is the reliability of testimony in these cases.
People who WANT to believe their experience, or the other person's, was special and real, go to great lengths to make it so.
Confirmation bias is then typically responsible for everything after that.
(And this is all for the honest ones, the ones who just make stuff up are yet another story...)
So, it could, for example, go like this:
NDE - I floated up over the operating room, and saw wires and cables and insulation, and, then, some people who were laying there not moving.
Nurse - OMG, you mean like manikins?
NDE - Well, not moving, so, yeah, like manikins.
Nurse, OMG, you saw the manikins on the beds on the floor above us!
NDE - I did? I guess I DID!
And so forth.
i was going to give the same explanation .. i salut u
No I don't think so, proving or disproving the sole falls under the same heading as proving or disproving the existence of a god, unicorns or green cheese moons. Your post is, first of all, third hand and anecdotal at best and unable to be tested empirically. Sorry to burst your bubble, but in my opinion, that is what it is.
Of course I am a firm believer that there is no sole to start with so that's what colors my statement.