Hi everyone!  I need some rational input here!  


I was arguing for same sex marriage with my family today ... my aunt was with me 100% and my grandmother and other aunt were against me 100% ... then the topic of abortion and unwanted pregnancy came up and before I knew , I had 3 women attacking me and making judgements about me!  I'll explain my beliefs about this topic below.  


Basically , in summary , I stated the following:  If a man and a woman were having sex together and the man always wore a condom and the woman was correctly taking birth control ... and the woman got pregnant ... and decided to have the child instead of have an abortion ... I claimed that the man does not have any moral responsibility to help support this child.  The reasons are below.  


If the woman can't support the child by herself or with the help of her consenting family , then the more mature and rational decision is to have an abortion.  


I claimed that abortion is a huge stigma in society with young females being pressured into having children based off religious reasons ... fear of eternal damnation or fear of having the equivalent of being 'slut shamed' in a different way.  


We both did everything we possibly could to prevent to child from taking place.  Even though we may not have completely stated in a verbal or written contract that we both did not want to have children , the fact she was taking birth control implies to a sufficient degree that she does not want to have a child.  The condom can go either way ... I could just be protecting against possible STD's or infecting her if by chance the male is the one with an STD.  


The woman is the one choosing to have the child.  She should not expect anyone to help take care of it if it's HER choice , just as the man does not have the right to force her to give birth to an unwanted pregnancy if she happens to not want the child.  


So in summary , the man should not be held legally nor morally accountable for choosing to not support the child because of the reasons stated above.  


Also , it appears to me that the argument from the other side is attempting to say the woman has the freedom of choice to give birth or abort , but the man has no freedom of choice and MUST automatically be obligated , both legally and morally , to support the child.  If I am interpreting this correctly , I find this view to be absurd ... as if the woman can decide but the man cannot.   A man who wants the child but the woman not wanting the child seems to me the exact opposite of the same coin , but as mentioned above , the man cannot legally force the woman to bear the child.  Therefore , a man should not be forced to help support a child that he , if he could make it happen ... would want an abortion instead.  


EDITED TO ADD********* 


Correction:  I was just informed that a man does have the legal right to claim a child and have the woman give birth under certain situations ... But this doesn't stop my argument because I don't feel like the man should ever , under any circumstance , have the legal right to dictate whether or not the woman should give birth to the child if she decides she wants an abortion.


END EDIT*****************


Please discuss! Any question or clarification , please inquire!  


(And try not to judge me , this conclusion is not because I want to freely have sex without responsibilities , which to me is an absurd counter to my argument above.)  

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Male or female, in a committed relationship or not, if you absolutely don't want children, it is YOUR responsibility to make sure that doesn't happen and accept the risk that it might if you're not the one personally using a combination of birth control methods. You must also accept that you can't know exactly how your partner react to an unplanned pregnancy.


Some people will change their minds about having an abortion. Others will change their minds about never having one. A female has the ability to change her mind and bring a pregnancy to term after two people have agreed otherwise. A male has the ability to change his mind and run away from a pregnancy and a relationship after the two have agreed otherwise. There simply is no way around this due to the inequality in the biology of natural reproduction.


Perhaps you could try requesting the signature of a legal contract excluding you from all parental responsibility prior to the act of sex. Also, if you feel this strongly about the subject and would probably run, I recommend a vasectomy, asap.

I am in total agreement, Robert.

Sorry do not agree. For one because you do not want a child now, does not mean you do not want in the future, so, vasecotmy or hysteroctomy are rather harsh contraceptives. Secondly the direct emotional link between enjoying sex, and the urge to reproduce became rather thin.

Thirdly, I do agree that in countries where abortion is illegal, well yes the father should also be held responsible in the raising of the child, for there are no options, Two played the game two pay the price, this is stated bluntly but often could result in a very unhappy child.  In countries where abortion is legalised, no, there is the equation as stated before by Dustin and matt, mother wants father not, then he is not responsible, father wants mother does not, she can have an abortion, without his conscent, 

An abortion would spare the kid from having to be birthed into this situation or into this cesspool world at all.  "The death of a child is never really to be regretted, considering how much he has escaped." (Thomas Hardy)
somehow failed!? Where did you get that from? Where did I ever imply anything about the woman failing? I have no idea what that even means!

Should I then have any legal right to force an abortion? If your argument is that the child is half my dna , then I should , yes? Why should she be allowed to choose either way but I cannot?

If you answer that the reason is because it's HER body , then it's HER child as well.



How does my quoted original comment have ANYTHING to do with implying the woman FAILED!?  


"woman is the only one at fault here"


it isn't about FAULT!!!  No FAULT involved!    No FAILING involved!!!  There is no FAULT to her decision , ONLY her decision!!!  


Her decision , HER  responsibility - NOT mine.  Her body , Her choice.  Her child.  NOT mine.  



And if it is proven that she has tampered with your condoms?  Or that she has purposefully deceived me by telling me she is using birth control but not actually?  This happens in real life.  The woman thinks that by having the child , it will give a reason to the man to 'stay with her' ... 


Should that change the situation at all?  

Fraud is a bad deal but the bottom line there is still a kid, you just going to walk away?

Look your not Xtian so spilling your seed is a choice that has no consequences.


The honest answer? In the current state that I am and with the best projection of what I would do if the situation occurred ... I'll just say: I would probably walk away. In my opinion , it would be her child , not mine, as I didn't want it and she did.
Do you explain this to the women before having sex or after?
Such conversations ruin the mood when we are both 'feelin hot under the covers' so to speak.

Hmmmm..... I like to find out if they are using birth control and if they would choose an abortion if an accidental pregnancy occurred. Other than that , I am legally responsible if the child is birthed , so what's the need to be all detailed and such? Then I probably wouldn't get sex =)

But then you are implying honesty should be spoken without being asked. Is she a little overweight? Suurrreeee , tell her! Is it weird she has hair on her lower back? No worries , just mention it real quick.

Does this make me look like a total asshole or just half of one?


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