In this discussion I would like to talk about abortion. It is always something I have felt very strong about and would argue to the ends of the earth on. I have always been Pro-Life, always. Ever since I became an Atheist, this topic keeps popping up in my head. Since it is something I have not wanted to confront, I have been pushing it to the back burner. Now that I have given it some thought I would like to tell you where I used to stand and where I stand now. When I was a Christian my thought process was "Abortion is Never the right choice unless the mother and child will both die." So even if the child were to survive and the mother dies, abortion is still not the right choice. Some might even consider that murder, I guess. To answer this question I'm sure someone will ask, Yes I would have and still would give up my life for my child. Well, now I'm sort of seeing things a bit different. If a female gets raped and gets pregnant from it, abortion is ok, (sad all the way around - for everyone).  If a woman chooses to abort a baby due to the risk to the mothers life, Ok. If the baby will have a very very very difficult life and in turn make the parents have an equally difficult life, ok. To me abortion is a horrible thing, if someone wants to have an abortion just because oops I got preggo. That is horrible. If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant. Simple as that. Life is a beautiful an precious thing, and yes I do believe it is special.  Any and All comments are welcome :)

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Kudos on that. That's another ridiculous point of christian nations and missionaries, that breastfeeding was considered sinful by so many representatives of the church and that missionaries in Africa systematically shut down breastfeeding (used to be common til age 5), which is African women's single best option, in exchange for man-made dairy. Such a crying shame. Another example of patriarchal, engineer and technogeek attitudes trying to surpass nature. The only breastmilk unfit for consumption is that which is ruined by human endeavours (dioxin, mercury, etc).
Literature on fertility controlled by lactation states that it's only 'very' efficient in the first  6 months and that efficiency goes down very fast, especially if one is not 'exclusive'. But on a population level, it did have noticeable impacts and women knew of it well. I think also in precolonial civilisations, being exclusive to lactation was much more natural as food sources were much rarer.

I was not breast fed and I am in perfect health. I have an above average IQ, I am almost 40 and I don't have any wrinkles or grey hair, I don't have any deficiencies or diseases... it IS possible to ensure good health without breast milk. I have already mentioned to you several factors that prevent mothers from breast feeding their children, which you have chosen to ignore.


We all know that, it's not like you pointed out some novel piece of science there. Again, it is about intention not accidents. To intentionally birth and infant with the full knowledge that you will deny that infant's first right, the breast. How healthy 'you' personally are is of absolutely no relevance, it's anecdotal, science has fully demonstrated that on a population basis, breast milk fed infants have less health problems.

Research has shown breastfeeding decreases the incidence and/or severity of (among other things) diarrhea, obesity, general illnesses, urinary tract infections, allergies, respiratory infections, SIDS, insulin-dependent diabetes, crohn's disease, and other chronic digestive diseases. Breastfeeding has also been related to possible enhancement of cognitive development.

The majority of women in the US who choose to formula feed do so out of ignorance and misinformation, not medical necessity. In the extremely rare cases where breastfeeding is not possible, there are certainly alternatives. However, the risks of this sub-standard nutrition should not be disregarded due to anecdotal stories.


I gave up a baby 16 years ago and I have never regretted it. Aparantly, your friend wishes death upon the child she gave up rather than the happy life he/she, most likely, now has. That's just selfishness, no offense to your friend. Abortion can cause even more guilt and remorse, beleive me. You may not feel it immediately, but the events of your past have a way of resurfacing on you later in life and causing all sorts of mental anguish. Chances are your friend would regret an abortion just as much as she does giving that child up for adoption, and at least that child has a chance to be someone now.

Adoption is not for everyone, but please don't condemn it as lazy and mis-informed. It is an option that you have if you become pregnant and you don't want to be a parent.

I am just in shock right now over this attitude towards adoption. Wow. Breast milk is now a right? Like abortion, breast feeding or not breast feeding your child is a personal choice. There are many reasons that you may choose not to breast feed your children, or perhapse you are one of those women who's body cannot produce enough milk, or any at all... then what?  

Of course the courts won't throw you in jail for not breastfeeding by choice... but to intentionally impose that life for an infant goes against the rational of health concerns. So what you're saying in essence, as has been mentioned several times here in other posts, is that you place a foetus' rights above a newborn's rights... great !

I am just in shock right now over this attitude towards adoption. Wow. Breast milk is now a right? Like abortion, breast feeding or not breast feeding your child is a personal choice.

These are personal choices, but that doesn't make them exempt from scrutiny or discussion on which is the better choice. I advocate breastmilk over formula because with the health, immunologic, economic, and environmental benefits it is the better choice. Likewise, I advocate early abortion over adoption because there's no shortage of unwanted and unloved children on this planet and America has one of the highest rates of teen pregnancy, abortion, infant mortality, and poverty in the modern world. We need to get a handle on this situation, and encouraging/guilting females into having children they cannot afford is not the answer. In societies with better sex education and health care where abortion is not a hot button issue, early abortion does not cause the same amount of psychological trauma as adoption or having kids one cannot properly care for or support and, perhaps more importantly, the abortion rates are lower.

In your particular situation, I commend you for realizing your child would have a better life if adopted, and making that difficult choice. I'm glad you had a wonderful experience without much regret. However, that is not the case for many females and there are far too many young uneducated mothers who are pressured into carrying pregnancies to term and then, not having the will to give up their unplanned children, they end up adding to the overpopulation and vicious cycle of ignorance and poverty when the better choice would have been early abortion.

"In societies with better sex education and health care where abortion is not a hot button issue, early abortion does not cause the same amount of psychological trauma"

Very much this. I think in the US, in particular, it's a social expectation that women feel guilt after an abortion, and the focus on potential psychological issues arising becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Incidentally, this topic came up on Saturday at a party with a number of girls from the FSU. Abortion is there viewed as contraception, and it is quite common for girls to have one or several during their lifetime. There is no social stigma attached - in fact, the expectations is that they walk out just fine - and they laughed a bit of the idea of bonding with a mass of cells. I'm not discounting the physiological reactions of pregnancy, but immediately assuming life long psychological trauma from abortion seems a bit extreme. 

As for adoption, I have a bit of insight seeing as my dad was adopted as an infant. I never heard my biological grandfather or -mother express regret, nor did it seem to have any impact on them. On the other hand, my maternal grandmother was manic-depressive, no doubt partially caused from one son killed by a truck when he was 9 and another dieing from crib death.

I will never change my opinion on that, ever.
So why are we discussing this subject?

It is wrong because the child could be saved via medical technology

Not necessarily... my mother in law was a midwife and has told me a few horror stories, sometimes a foetus should just be aborted.


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