A movement is afoot to demand a $15 minimum wage, both at the state and federal level. 

If it happens, it will mean a better life for many, but will it be a disaster for many as well?

How will businesses respond to a minimum wage that's roughly double what it is now? I suspect this is what we'll see:

1) increased streamlining of workplace processes and the use of workplace technologies to replace workers or make workers work faster, resulting in...

2) layoffs.

3) greater use of part-timers.

4) a ripple effect of increased prices across the economy, affecting those employees who keep their jobs as well as everyone else.

Still think an increased minimum wage (a living wage) is a good idea?

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Even if all capitalists accepted climate change, given the short term losses in terms of jobs, diversion of government resources from popular programs, probable tax increases, etc., it would STILL be hard to convince a majority of the public to bite the bullet and want the government to do something about it.

What you really want is a dictator.

Unfortunately that is very true Unseen. I don't actually hold out much (if any) hope that we will seriously start to do something about it until our only real  choice is to change or die out. Though i am not entirely pessimistic as i am sure we will muddle through it and come out the end better for it.

I'm totally pessimistic. There are just too many problems (climate change, dying oceans, ozone hole over the poles, bee hives dying off, etc.) and too many ways for people to form doubts or engage in wishful thinking ("Let us pray to God to get us out of this mess through a miracle").

"That is a total non sequitur as far as I can tell. If not, explain it."

Because instead of answering any of the simple questions i asked you immediately attack me with a strawman  argument .

Did not.

Is it not a stawman to confute an ideological position with a biological one then argue against the biological one to refute the ideological position?

Do you not see any important differences between being  a capitalist and being born to a particular race?

Oh boy this is a fun one.  I have to disclose that I am in the Painters Union, so there is my bias.  Have a look at this article everyone.  


Don't want to say much until this is read and discussed but I will say that I think salaries should be capped.  The pie we are all eating isn't infinite.  As the wealth continues upward the bubble will bust and collapse under its' own weight.  When the richest of the rich have it all, where will we be then?  Off with their heads?  Seems to me a fairly plain thing to see.. if the guys at the top would let a nice chunk back down to the bottom, will they not just turn around and spend that money on the goods and services they are selling in the first place, sending that some of that money right back to them?  Hell they may even be able to walk out of starbucks one day without being asked for their spare change.  

The minimum wage is really intended for people at the bottom of the pile. Teens, still at home, working part time while in high school or retirees just wanting something to get them out of the house along with a few bucks to supplement their small retirement/Soc Sec income. That's what it has been, but with the shitty economy, single parents and people with college degrees and mortgages to pay have been driven into those positions. The solution isn't to raise the minimum wage to $15, it's to fix the economy so that those minimum wage jobs are opened back up to those who don't really need the money that much. The teens and retirees. $21.16? Bwahahahaha!!!

i notice you make no mention of the general wage gap.. here is an article that i think illistrates the similarities between the low paid workers of the last century and ours today. This is a loose comparison if you will. Surely you would admit we would be in a much better place if there were some kind of mechanism for scaling back pay starting from the top and tapering down somewhere around the bottom 3/5 of the wage scale, then letting that excess spread down from there. disposable income is the real issue here. the rate and direction we are heading.. it will soon be the those just above the minimum wage workers in the same boat, further dragging those just above them and so on until the great collapse.


Well, unfortunately I suspect that if some sort of mechanism were legislated (about as likely as an unexpected solar eclipse), the Supreme Court would find it unconstitutional.

Agreed. I have no delusions that this will happen. I fully expect the collapse or a very long era of a poor majority. Time will tell. Too bad us humans are such greedy fucks.. but i guess that also has played its part in our survival.

If anyone is still interested in this subject here is a link to a recent Intelligent Squared debate on just this subject. Enjoy:



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