Comment by Ron Brown on December 31, 2010 at 7:13pm

I agree with Sam, if not scientific methodology when dealing with morality, then where? It's the best we have - winner by default.

Comment by Galen on December 31, 2010 at 7:14pm

I rather agree with him.  There's no reason that we atheists can't have the same feelings of a spiritual nature that religious people do.  Neil DeGrasse Tyson talks often about his feelings of "oneness" with the cosmos and, like Sagan, has talked about how the universe is within us because we're not outside observers, we are PART of the universe itself.  That seems pretty spiritual to me, no gods required.

 

I also know for myself personally that morality can be based purely on logic and science, because that is how I base my own morals.

 

Sam's ideas are something that Gene Roddenberry envisioned long ago when he made up Vulcan society.  An entire culture that rejects emotion and relies purely on logic and science, yet they are deeply spiritual and moral people.  I'd say that being more like the Vulcans is a worthy goal for our society.

Comment by Dallas the Phallus on December 31, 2010 at 7:25pm

I rather agree with him. There's no reason that we atheists can't have the same feelings of a spiritual nature that religious people do. Neil DeGrasse Tyson talks often about his feelings of "oneness" with the cosmos and, like Sagan, has talked about how the universe is within us because we're not outside observers, we are PART of the universe itself. That seems pretty spiritual to me, no gods required.

 

Okay, but for me, I HATE the word spirituality. I do not believe in souls or spirits, and spirituality just SOUNDS way too religious for me. If people want to be spiritual, I wish they'd come up with another name for it! : )

 

I also know for myself personally that morality can be based purely on logic and science, because that is how I base my own morals.

 

No, not entirely. No one is PURELY logical or scientific. You should read up on how emotions shape our decision making abilities.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotions_in_decision_making

http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=7530

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descartes%27_Error

 

Comment by Ron Brown on December 31, 2010 at 7:48pm

Yes Galen I agree with you. I also, as Sam , was a practicing Buddhist for much of my life, and there is a great felling of 'oneness' aka: rapture, satori, samadhi, etc.  when the mind connects to experiences without intellection, which is nice , but what I feel is truly valuable and what science is beginning to realize( Sam et al ) is the profound insight into the workings of the mind - watching the thoughts and how they lead to other thoughts, feelings and actions - feel how they interact with the adrenal and pituitary glands. They can take us for quite a ride if we're not being 'mindful', and takes practice, but I know of nothing more rewarding for the energy spent.

Comment by Gayle Gordon on December 31, 2010 at 7:55pm

Maybe we can call it a "cosmic" experience.  The idea of spirituality/cosmic experience without religious dogma/deity reminds me a lot of Eckhart Tolle's writings.  I haven't read Harris' books yet but am interested.  I saw him on The Daily Show and put him on my list of "things I want to read!"

Comment by Bill on December 31, 2010 at 8:08pm

I kind of wish he used a different word than spirituality, but I still love Sam. I guess this means we are going to have many more arguments over the word. I certainly agree with him that there is something there that we can't just forfeit to the religious.  Is spirituality the best word to describe this thing? I don't know. But if it helps make religion weaker if some atheists co-opt the word, that's great. But I'm with you Dallas, I wish we could come up with something better!

Comment by Dallas the Phallus on December 31, 2010 at 8:12pm

Gayle, personally I'm not wild about the word cosmic either, as it has a new age-iness about it. I think to be really effective, someone would have to completely coin a new word -- one that has no meanings already attached to it.

Comment by Ron Brown on December 31, 2010 at 8:32pm

Even though 'spirituality' has morphed into this gray area describing a sort of introspective growth and not necessarily always mean 'of the spirit', it still sounds little too dualistic to me and I don't feel comfortable using it.

Comment by Bil Stachour on May 28, 2011 at 5:16pm

What a piece of hack journalism.  They make plain their desperation for ratings by calling Harris outrageous and an attack dog--and making it seem somehow HIS fault that he needs security and to keep his home secret. (What an indictment of some believers.)  I've never heard him speak above a low conversational voice; I've never seen him get excited in any way.  But his arguments are so threatening that it's easier to make a monster of him than to address the points he raises.

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