Obama Supports Human Rights for LGBT People; Christians Angry

Comment by Robert Karp on December 7, 2011 at 9:58am

Whether or not you agree on if this is good foreign policy or not, we can all agree this guy is a tool at best. Actually bud, there is a growing international consensus on gay rights and it is something you are born with.

On the flip side, it's ironic Obama advocate for this abroad yet still will not a propose a national same sex marriage law.

Comment by Emilyhasbooks on December 7, 2011 at 11:14am

The misinformation and underlying bigotry spewed by this talking head is disgusting.

Comment by matt.clerke on December 7, 2011 at 6:45pm

Oh noes, the gay agenda?!?!?! Seriously, what the hell is the gay agenda? to be treated fairly (maybe it's code for take over the world?)

Comment by Dylan Blaine on December 7, 2011 at 8:29pm

If that guy were to squint his eyes any closer together, he'd be a cyclops.

Comment by kris feenstra on December 7, 2011 at 9:44pm

The issue of "choice" and moral opinions aside, LGBT people seeking asylum aren't generally doing so because they've been called mean names or been denied the right to marry or adopt; they're doing so because they face unjust imprisonment, bodily harm, and/ or death.  I don't even wish those things on Peter Sprigg, himself

Comment by Unseen on December 7, 2011 at 10:47pm

Okay, I'm all for gay rights, gay marriage, etc., here where it's my business. I think we go too far when we try to impose our ethics on other jurisdictions. Imagine, for example, that instead of us, Israel was the most powerful country on earth and they wouldn't give AID to any country that didn't observe Kosher dietary laws and allowed business to be conducted between sundown on Friday and sundown on Saturday. Wouldn't we feel they were unjustifiably interfering in our business and trying to impose their culture on ours? Or, let's take a human rights example. Suppose a fundamentalist Muslim country was the most powerful country, and many other countries, including the US, depended on their foreign aid. Now, suppose they decided to withhold AID to any country which allowed women to drive.

Anyway, isn't it a bit arrogant of us to impose our perception of right on other societies and cultures? I'm assuming that most of the time we're talking about money we feel would do some good (e.g., fight diseases, build schools). We believe in gay rights, but is it right of us to withhold money which might fight disease or improve education in another country because we don't see eye to eye on the gay issue?

Comment by KaraC on December 7, 2011 at 11:31pm

So unseen, how would you feel if we continued to give aid money to countries where atheists could be killed if anyone found out they were atheists? I think if we are giving aid, then we get the right to set reasonable terms, e.g. the aid must not be diverted to pay for weapons, or enrich the ruling classes. It must not be used to buy torture implements, and so forth. If you don't like the conditions, don't accept the aid. International aid serves at least two purposes - it hopefully does some good, but is also a diplomatic lever, and one that is way better than military action if it can be used effectively.

Comment by kris feenstra on December 7, 2011 at 11:56pm

Anyway, isn't it a bit arrogant of us to impose our perception of right on other societies and cultures?

According to Clinton's speech, the larger part of the policy is to make sure that sexual orientation and gender identity are included under human rights protections and considerations, so no.  It's not really an issue of perception anyway.  The humanity of LGBT+ people is not a matter of "our" perception, though how to recognize human rights may be.

It sounds like some of the policies simply include dedicating funds to to pro-LGBT+ organizations, and providing asylum on the basis of LGBT+ discrimination.  In terms of refusing aid on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity discrimination issues, I'd wager very little will change in practice.

Comment by Gabriela Menicucci on December 8, 2011 at 12:42am

America the gay loving country, home of the biggest imperialists worshipers of capitalism whom ironically got screwed by their own system but insists this is what the rest of the world needs, whoever agrees is their ally whoever disagrees is the enemy, no middle ground when you are nothing but a fascist. 

Comment by Unseen on December 8, 2011 at 12:54am

@KaraC  "So unseen, how would you feel if we continued to give aid money to countries where atheists could be killed if anyone found out they were atheists? I think if we are giving aid, then we get the right to set reasonable terms, e.g. the aid must not be diverted to pay for weapons, or enrich the ruling classes. It must not be used to buy torture implements, and so forth. If you don't like the conditions, don't accept the aid. International aid serves at least two purposes - it hopefully does some good, but is also a diplomatic lever, and one that is way better than military action if it can be used effectively."

We give money to countries that oppress people according to their local belief systems. It might be atheists or it might be people who visit Western news sources.

It's not our job to turn every other country into a carbon copy of us.

As I often say, there are only two kinds of rights: legislated and imaginary. So, there's no such thing as human rights unless you want to pretend (using the aforementioned imagination) that there are.

We have enough things to attend to at home without getting on a high horse to dictate what other countries should do. For example, here in Ohio the legislature is considering a pro-life law that would make it illegal to even purchase a health insurance policy with one's own money, that would cover an abortion.

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