"How to Be a Real Man" clip from Acquire The Fire TV show

If any of you have watched Mind over Mania (MOM) which was just shared by Robert Karp on Think Atheist (here is the link http://www.thinkatheist.com/video/mom ) you will now be familiar with Acquire the Fire. Here is a very disturbingly funny video by Acquire the Fire's TV series called the "Josiah Project" from 1999. I promise you this is not a troll this is for real.

Views: 234

Comment by Philip D on November 21, 2011 at 11:21pm

Its disturbing but I can't stop laughing at how ridiculous it is.  "Consider yourself disconnected"

Comment by IEatDinosaurMeat on November 22, 2011 at 1:12am

"Not some sissy little limp wristed thing bouncing around acting like a pansy..."


Class at it's best.

Comment by John Kelly on November 22, 2011 at 1:59am

Honor Academy graduate 2001, represent! What a year...

Comment by Gabriela Menicucci on November 22, 2011 at 3:06pm

"Yo loco por Jesus" LOL it seems to be a "real" man you have to be incredibly violent, corny, and speak very bad spanish.

Comment by Gianni Versatile on November 22, 2011 at 3:33pm

Why hit the guy? LOL What a joke these things, negating one bad thing to bring up another just as bad. :(

Comment by John Kelly on November 22, 2011 at 11:01pm

Okay just to let you guys know, it is being comically exaggerating.  I wouldn't take it at face value.  I know TM and ATF very well.  That clip cut out some stuff and was originally made by Mark Steele for an ATF event.

The premise of Christianity is Jesus was the only perfect man ever.  I don't take much offense to Christians saying that.

Ron Luce uses Josiah as an example of a real man, the boy king, but he doesn't really cover it in that shortened clip so it seems out of place.

Josiah was actually consolidating power in Jerusalem by ensuring all worship only took place there.  Not much of being a real man, but the biblical account version of him could be considered inspirational to those who believe it when it comes to finding role models of ideal man.  Real is obviously an idiom for "ideal".

TM at the time was trying to fight the idea that Christianity was wimpy.

Comment by John Kelly on November 23, 2011 at 1:20am

The events do have a solidly coherent message.  The message is frustrating now for me as an atheist as there is no reason to believe that God or Christianity is true.

But with Josiah, if YHWH was the one true God and had forbidden worship, it would not have been really all that bad for him to set things right that way.  It isn't like how Jehu went about it by executing the priests of Baal.  He isn't like Ezra who ordered divorces to take place in order to support his xenophobic ideology.  Josiah is hardly the worst of the bunch.  And if Christianity were true, and the account in Kings occurred as it is recorded by the revisionist who wrote the book, Josiah would be a good role model.  His father was unfaithful, yet he restored the people to worshipping the true God rather than false idols...  Unfortunately that isn't likely what went down.  We know he consolidated power until his dying day.  We know that high place worship was not considered a sin for followers of YHWH...  But unfortunately they don't so we can't expect people who don't to act like they do.

Ron Luce is pretty radical, but he is at least genuine.  People think ATF is hype because being that radically devout and passionate about it is a foreign concept to them.  I used to find it inspiring, but most people who can't be like that just find it impossible.  But he does give clear definitions of what he is talking about at ATF events.  Also, Ron doesn't really do much with the Honor Academy.  He teaches a few classes, but all in all Dave Hasz is in charge of it's entire structure.  I have problems with Teen Mania, but I know for a fact that the documentary that just came out is a ridiculous misrepresentation of the truth.

There are some serious issues on recoveringalumni.com about what is wrong with the HA and TM.  I have my own issues, especially the culture of oppression brought on by not the leadership, but rather the students who don't really understand what the leadership is telling them but are very sure that they do.  They assume that the leadership is telling them things, but the truth is that they are reinterpreting everything they are told in weird ass ways.  That is what happens when you get over 800 people who have little theological education trying to be as devout as Ron Luce and as disciplined as Dave Hasz.  But how it is presented in the documentary, is really due to a lot of misinformation.  I was there for a number of the things they talked about in it because I was there for the entire year of 2001.  What they are saying is totally a misrepresentation of what actually occurred.

When I was a Christian, I hated when Christians misrepresented atheists and their arguments.  This love for truth is what caused me to eventually become an atheist.  As an atheist, I cannot stand it when anything other than the truth is presented during opposition to something.  I would be more than happy to share what is wrong with TM, Ron Luce, and Dave Hasz, but I expect only the truth and accurate representation in dealing with anyone.

Comment by John Kelly on November 23, 2011 at 2:11am

Oh well that he did then...  Forgive the error on my part.  I forgot about that part.   Though Christians don't see the death of people in the OT as bad, because they considered things to be harsher under the OT covenant. 

Using YHWH's position on Nineveh as a cross-reference can serve to make this and other passages like it confusing for Christians.

Comment by Simon Paynton on November 23, 2011 at 2:15pm

I think it's a good idea to try and educate everyone who wants to know, what a "real man" should be.  Especially young people of both sexes. 

Comment by Simon Paynton on November 24, 2011 at 4:03am

@ Kris:  "Real man" is definitely a useful concept.  It's in no way the same as a "macho man".  A man can be the biggest pansy in the world, and still be a real man.  A big tough man is not necessarily a real man. 

A man, who is not a real man, is weak and therefore dangerous.  He may have ego problems; he may be selfish, arrogant, violent, destructive, jealous, cruel, abusive, evasive, defensive, dishonest, deceptive; he may fail to love.  He may be a Judas.  He may take out his problems on others.  etc. 

A real man is a good man, a strong man, a kind man and a brave man.  He knows how to love.  He is not cruel.  He takes care of those weaker than himself.  He is not afraid to get hurt, if necessary, defending what's important to him.  He has integrity.  He tries to do the right thing no matter what.  He doesn't make excuses.  He doesn't visit his problems onto other people.  He stands by his friends.  etc.


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