"How to Be a Real Man" clip from Acquire The Fire TV show

If any of you have watched Mind over Mania (MOM) which was just shared by Robert Karp on Think Atheist (here is the link http://www.thinkatheist.com/video/mom ) you will now be familiar with Acquire the Fire. Here is a very disturbingly funny video by Acquire the Fire's TV series called the "Josiah Project" from 1999. I promise you this is not a troll this is for real.

Comment by Philip D on November 21, 2011 at 11:21pm

Its disturbing but I can't stop laughing at how ridiculous it is.  "Consider yourself disconnected"

Comment by IEatDinosaurMeat on November 22, 2011 at 1:12am

"Not some sissy little limp wristed thing bouncing around acting like a pansy..."

 

Class at it's best.

Comment by John Kelly on November 22, 2011 at 1:59am

Honor Academy graduate 2001, represent! What a year...

Comment by kris feenstra on November 22, 2011 at 2:50pm

Real men sucker punch their friends in the face after having rash changes of heart, just like Jesus would have done ('cause he hated no good, dirty sinners)

 

Real men drive compact discs into their bedroom walls, damaging what is probably their parents' property.  How does that one commandment go again?  Honour thy mutter and feather?  Motor and fawner?  Oh, no wait; it's 'mother and father'.

 

Apparently, real men just say and do stupid things without giving it much thought.  Can do!

Comment by Gabriela Menicucci on November 22, 2011 at 3:06pm

"Yo loco por Jesus" LOL it seems to be a "real" man you have to be incredibly violent, corny, and speak very bad spanish.

Comment by Gianni Versatile on November 22, 2011 at 3:33pm

Why hit the guy? LOL What a joke these things, negating one bad thing to bring up another just as bad. :(

Comment by John Kelly on November 22, 2011 at 11:01pm

Okay just to let you guys know, it is being comically exaggerating.  I wouldn't take it at face value.  I know TM and ATF very well.  That clip cut out some stuff and was originally made by Mark Steele for an ATF event.

The premise of Christianity is Jesus was the only perfect man ever.  I don't take much offense to Christians saying that.

Ron Luce uses Josiah as an example of a real man, the boy king, but he doesn't really cover it in that shortened clip so it seems out of place.


Josiah was actually consolidating power in Jerusalem by ensuring all worship only took place there.  Not much of being a real man, but the biblical account version of him could be considered inspirational to those who believe it when it comes to finding role models of ideal man.  Real is obviously an idiom for "ideal".

TM at the time was trying to fight the idea that Christianity was wimpy.

Comment by kris feenstra on November 23, 2011 at 12:37am

Okay just to let you guys know, it is being comically exaggerating.

 

I don't think the general tone of the piece escaped most people; it's just that it still doesn't excuse it for how poorly thought out it is.  Is Josiah really a good example to set?  His devotion to Yahweh is sick and monstrous compared to Jesus.  The 'we ain't no pansies' attitude is juvenile pandering.  The use of homophobic slurs period is juvenile (at best), regardless of his views on homosexuality.

 

The impression I'm left with is that the event is more about generating hype than well thought out guidance or any sort of coherent message.  It comes off as insecure.

Comment by John Kelly on November 23, 2011 at 1:20am

The events do have a solidly coherent message.  The message is frustrating now for me as an atheist as there is no reason to believe that God or Christianity is true.

But with Josiah, if YHWH was the one true God and had forbidden worship, it would not have been really all that bad for him to set things right that way.  It isn't like how Jehu went about it by executing the priests of Baal.  He isn't like Ezra who ordered divorces to take place in order to support his xenophobic ideology.  Josiah is hardly the worst of the bunch.  And if Christianity were true, and the account in Kings occurred as it is recorded by the revisionist who wrote the book, Josiah would be a good role model.  His father was unfaithful, yet he restored the people to worshipping the true God rather than false idols...  Unfortunately that isn't likely what went down.  We know he consolidated power until his dying day.  We know that high place worship was not considered a sin for followers of YHWH...  But unfortunately they don't so we can't expect people who don't to act like they do.

Ron Luce is pretty radical, but he is at least genuine.  People think ATF is hype because being that radically devout and passionate about it is a foreign concept to them.  I used to find it inspiring, but most people who can't be like that just find it impossible.  But he does give clear definitions of what he is talking about at ATF events.  Also, Ron doesn't really do much with the Honor Academy.  He teaches a few classes, but all in all Dave Hasz is in charge of it's entire structure.  I have problems with Teen Mania, but I know for a fact that the documentary that just came out is a ridiculous misrepresentation of the truth.

There are some serious issues on recoveringalumni.com about what is wrong with the HA and TM.  I have my own issues, especially the culture of oppression brought on by not the leadership, but rather the students who don't really understand what the leadership is telling them but are very sure that they do.  They assume that the leadership is telling them things, but the truth is that they are reinterpreting everything they are told in weird ass ways.  That is what happens when you get over 800 people who have little theological education trying to be as devout as Ron Luce and as disciplined as Dave Hasz.  But how it is presented in the documentary, is really due to a lot of misinformation.  I was there for a number of the things they talked about in it because I was there for the entire year of 2001.  What they are saying is totally a misrepresentation of what actually occurred.

When I was a Christian, I hated when Christians misrepresented atheists and their arguments.  This love for truth is what caused me to eventually become an atheist.  As an atheist, I cannot stand it when anything other than the truth is presented during opposition to something.  I would be more than happy to share what is wrong with TM, Ron Luce, and Dave Hasz, but I expect only the truth and accurate representation in dealing with anyone.

Comment by kris feenstra on November 23, 2011 at 1:53am

But with Josiah, if YHWH was the one true God and had forbidden worship, it would not have been really all that bad for him to set things right that way.  It isn't like how Jehu went about it by executing the priests of Baal.

 

I was under the impression that Josiah had priests executed after his change of faith, along with desecrating their bones and graves.

 

2 Kings 23:

 

20: Josiah slaughtered all the priests of those high places on the altars and burned human bones on them. Then he went back to Jerusalem.

 

I don't know if there is a coherent message across all events.  I'll take your word for it that there is.  I'm saying that the message in this event, even just with that short clip, is not about a coherent message.  It's chest thumping playing off of insecurity.  Granted, I suppose the rest of the session could have taken a radically different direction, so perhaps my comment was too far reaching.

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