Comment by Robert Karp on September 12, 2011 at 11:20am

My bad, thanks Becca.

Comment by Robert Karp on September 12, 2011 at 11:36am

Ok, so I should've watched it and now that I have....I TOTALLY AGREE. Yes this guy is annoying, so is Penn Jillette but his anger is justified. I agree. Wholeheartedly.


If we are in a situation where we cannot pay our own teachers but can "lose" 360 million dollars to the Taliban, then something is not working. Our priorities have gone down the poop-shoot.


Children die every day in our inner cities from violence. Where are the memorials for them? Where is the news media. He's right, it just doesn't sell like 9/11 does.

Comment by Jacob LeMaster on September 12, 2011 at 12:57pm

I find it amusing how cherry picked this video is..You have to get passed the shtick and listen to the message as a whole.. The more I listen to this video the more I agree with it..


And technically I can say all I want about how ranting doesn't work but I would be wrong... Ridicule puts people off balance... It makes them question.. and makes them do exactly what we want them to do... It pisses them off bad enough to want to try and prove us wrong in areas where they really cant.. But like Churchill said.. Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. And this guy is like a terribly painful itch those bastards just cant scratch..


Comment by kris feenstra on September 12, 2011 at 1:24pm

I agree with the overall sentiment (though not with every point made).  I think many, if not most handled the incident well enough.  The extreme end of American exceptionalism, hubris, and ignorance was so sensationalistic that it just sticks out in my mind better, but I don't believe that represents the average American at all.  


My memory could be off, but it feels like it was only a matter of months after the attacks before people were already moving on with their lives and were ready to let the hype start dying down.  That's when media and politicians really started digging in.  9/11 became a holy word and having a rational discussion on the attacks became increasingly difficult.  


'National security' became a holy invocation.  

"Why can't I wait for the bus station to open in two hours?"

"Sir, it's a matter of national security."

"I don't understand. What threat could I possibly pose?  I'm just waiting for the station to open so I can buy a ticket."

"Sir.  National.  Security."

"That's not an explanation."

"If you're not gone in the next five minutes, I'll be forced to notify the authorities."


I had this little dialogue in 'live free or die' New Hampshire, already four years after Sept. 11 2001.  Utter nonsense.

Comment by Arcus on September 12, 2011 at 1:29pm

Fuck December 7! Get over it already!

Comment by Nate on September 12, 2011 at 2:42pm

@Sassan K, kinda off topic but my friend went on vacation in Saudi Arabia for 3 weeks a couple months back and loved it, id imagine it wouldn't have been as pleasant if my friend were a women though

Comment by Chibuzor Obiora on September 12, 2011 at 4:44pm

ask yourself , if you were hurt would you let me kill in your name. The truth is that 3000 'American' lives are supposed to be worth more than any body else from the rest of the world. it desensitizes us so that we think 3000 thousand offsets more than a million who have been killed since in the name of 9-11! we have to stand up and say "Enough is a god-dammed Nough"

Comment by kris feenstra on September 12, 2011 at 5:02pm that people like you remember that you are alive and talking shit filling your mouth with freedom because of people like ME fighting a war against an ideology that wants to eradicate you.


This seems like a very difficult statement to back up. I know (or hope) it's rhetoric, but I will mention for my own reasons that it's statistically highly unlikely to be true.  He would almost certainly be alive either way, though I can't rightly say if his life would be better or worse one way or the other.  The video addresses the issue of whether or not funds invested in the war effort would have been better invested elsewhere in terms of saving lives and promoting human health and happiness.  Personally, I can't pretend to have a definitive answer, as there are a lot of factors and different angles to consider.  We can't reset time and play out the last decade with a different game plan to compare and contrast.  


That said, I am also of the opinion that the money spent on the wars was not the optimal route to take.  This holds especially true for my own country and Canadian involvement in Afghanistan.  I have no intention of thanking or condemning soldiers from any country.  I never asked them to do anything for me, and whether or not their actions, on the balance, tipped to the favour of me and my society or against it is undetermined.  Personally, I was willing to place my bet on not fighting in Afghanistan in the manner we did, and was willing to live or die by the consequences.  That's why I've never enlisted.  That's why I voted for politicians who were against the war.  Didn't pan out my way, so I'll never know conclusively if I was right or wrong.

Comment by Sassan K. on September 12, 2011 at 7:23pm

@Gerald Martinez: I thank you and salute you for your service and sacrifice in protecting our homeland and providing an opportunity for a more free world. Ignore these haters - [* moderator] their opinions mean nothing. It is just sad that there are a group of [* moderator] anti-west/anti-democracy atheists who "claim" they care about humanity when in reality, they would allow dictators, tyrants, and terrorists to remain in power and to continue to oppress, terrorize, and cause havoc to their own people and threaten international security and stability.


[moderator note: personal insults removed as they are a violation of the forum policy; the content of the message has not been other wise affected.]

Comment by Sassan K. on September 12, 2011 at 7:37pm

It is really disheartening that it seems like a portion of atheists are the type who claim they value rationality and reason - but in reality, are often times more irrational than religious people themselves. We were attacked on 9/11 - in an unprovoked attack from an enemy who wants to bring down humanity. After 9/11 - terrorist attacks followed in countries ranging from India, Spain, England, and countless of other nations for the simple reason for being westerners and non-Muslims (and in the case of India, for being polytheists since polytheists are the worst form of "creature" and they all deserve to die as accorded by the quran). For once - look at yourselves in the mirror and just think in your puny heads; not only was America attacked on 9/11 but the entire civilized world was attacked. When we were attacked, civilization was attacked. Now, we can argue the merits of the Iraq war and deserving so - but protecting our homeland and going after the terrorists and getting rid of the Taliban was not only necessary since the Taliban was harboring Bin Laden and Al Qaeda - but in addition, it was an imperative of the world community in getting rid of the most brutal oppressors on the face of this Earth. The fact that thousands of our troops have sacrificed their lives - is an honor, not something to smug at. We learned our lesson from leaving Afghanistan after the Soviet war - and we have not made that same mistake again. The fact remains - that 9/11 changed the world and changed humanity - and we should be proud of our ideals and values in supporting freedom and democratic change - war is never perfect and mistakes surely happen - but the world is a better and safer place today than it was 10-years ago.


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