Comment by archaeopteryx on July 12, 2012 at 11:56am

But on the BRIGHT side:

UN: The United Nations Human Rights Council in Geneva adopted for the first time ever a resolution affirming that the rights to freedom of belief and expression -- established in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights -- apply equally offline and online (i.e., the Internet). The resolution (A/HRC/20/L.13) urges governments to protect the rights to freedom of belief and expression regardless of medium. It was led by Sweden, Brazil, Nigeria, Tunisia, Turkey, and the United States, and adopted by consensus. In related news, a group of international experts has issued the Joint Declaration on Crimes Against Free Expression, which calls for a new category of crime: “crime against free expression.” The new category would warrant harsher punishments on the grounds that crimes against free expression undermine every person's right to knowledge, and thus affect societies as a whole.

I have no doubt that the US support of this resolution has to do with opening up Muslim theocracies, but atheists and agnostics can certainly make use of it as well.

Comment by Grady Jean on July 12, 2012 at 12:37pm

@rex Run for the border *The northern one*  and don't look back.

Comment by Richard E. Robertson on July 12, 2012 at 1:22pm

Thanks, John. I didn't go that far, but what you suggest is SCARY - to think she is supposed to be educating college students. At least she isn't a history professor. That would be MUCH worse!

Comment by Richard E. Robertson on July 12, 2012 at 1:28pm

I take that back. I just looked her up too. She has a well-earned reputation and it's sad how her religious beliefs have derailed her other work. :(

Comment by John Kelly on July 12, 2012 at 2:14pm

You know Richard, it is funny, because information is taken at face value at a pulpit so much by Christian culture, that a normally scientific mind tends to just accept lies and misinformation.  The myth that America was founded on Christian values is just bizarre.  Greek and Roman values is more like it, with a bit of the Enlightenment thrown in.

But with the treaty of Tripoli being ratified by the senate just 10 years later declaring that the US is NOT a Christian nation, and with the Farrands records declaring only 3-4 people thought prayer was necessary in drafting the Constitution, you would think at least that lie could get put to rest.  A lot of people think religion us "obviously true" because with all the misinformation they have, the  evidence points that way.

Comment by Richard E. Robertson on July 12, 2012 at 2:17pm

On that topic, whenever I lose my way, I just watch the videos on

I want her book! 

Comment by James Cox on July 12, 2012 at 3:05pm

So he asked a troll to defend Perry that does not understand church-state separation, and how it protects EVEN her! Just great!

Then over the course of the conversation, it sounds more like a 'brawl of words', with no one listening, or knowing how to share! 

Comment by James Cox on July 12, 2012 at 3:17pm

I think Perry should be able to have his prayer gathering, even congressional believers can come, but they should not be able to pretend that the event represents anything else but their own concerns, or that prayer replaces thought on sujects/issues that affect all of us!

Denigning them their beliefs verges on demogogery, denigning others their beliefs, is only more of the same. This is where rationality comes in, I just hope something is left of rationality after their prayer's are said! If they can't balance a budget because they can't count, on must rely on 'God' to do the computations, then their 'prayer' becomes another problem, not a solution. If they rely of revelation to determine state policy, then most likely 'all our lives' will be worse off.

At the end of the day, if they can't do the states work, then they have crossed the line into nuttyness/madness and should be removed from office.  

Comment by Cody Kirchner on July 12, 2012 at 4:18pm

   Now, this is going to seem a little racist because I'm only judging on her accent; please forgive that. She said that in 1962 there was prayer in church and that an Atheist overturned that. Well, only ten short years before that, black and white children couldn't even go to school together. So clearly the past is not all its cracked up to be.

  Maybe I'm wrong in my judgement, but I think if you posed that question to her, she wouldn't like it much. Change christians to whites and she'd be up in arms. She wants a majority rule, let her back that one up when its a different majority.

Just as a disclaimor, I don't want that at all, I'm just saying she's being hippocritical.

Comment by Rob Klaers on July 12, 2012 at 4:58pm

Cody.. the interesting thing is the Constitution was put together to help protect the rights of the minority, not the majority. 


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