Comment by J. Ratzinger on October 20, 2009 at 5:40pm

The daughter says "If you're so against religion, (don't believe in gods) why do you even think about it or talk about it? I don't believe, but don't ever talk about it." The question and statement have merit.

Her question makes me wonder why it is that some Atheists devote substantial parts of their lives to the topic of religion often to the point of spending unreasonable amounts of money to travel to, and actually purchase high priced tickets to attend events like the Amazing Meeting and AAI to kibitz with other people who also do not believe in gods.

Is your disbelief so weak that it needs constant reinforcing by attending these overpriced dog and pony show lounge acts to hear only the same things we Atheists already hold to be true or to see people say the same things we see them say on you-tube everyday for free. Hundreds of dollars to just get into the door......not to mention hundreds or even thousands to travel to and accommodate at the venue.

I listen to an atheist Podcast out of Australia (For Free) where several of the hosts traveled from Aussieland the USA to attend Comic-Con to be nearer their Atheist Idols or something I suppose. They stayed in the hotel for the event and flew back. The term Brights for these types of Atheists seems laughingly out of place. They seemingly have more money than brains.

Comment by Dave G on October 20, 2009 at 6:12pm

There is a difference between talking about religious belief in regard to one's own belief/non-belief, and talking about it with regard to the actions being undertaken by those who do believe. It's no different than the 'Why are you angry with God?' question. One does not have to believe in a deity to get angry at the abuses perpetrated by those who believe in it.

Sitting back and remaining silent and never talking about the subject concedes defeat. It gives control to people who will make laws and set standards that assume a belief in gods, and continue our current position as outcasts and pariahs. I used to not say much about my non-belief, because I figured that I'd have my non-belief, they'd have their beliefs, and we'd just leave each other alone. But they won't leave us alone. Ever. The only way that we can prevent religious imposition is to stand up for ourselves, not sit meekly and hope that our views will be fairly represented.

I've not been to TAM (although I'd like to go someday), but I have attended a couple atheist conventions. (AAI convention in DC in 2007, and the AA convention in Atlanta this year) I don't go because I'm trying to reinforce by disbelief, or hear the same things over and over again. I go to meet people, hang out, have conversations (the topics of which range from religion to science to politics to music to travel to fashion to just about anything) and generally have fun. It's called being social. It's nice to be around people whom you don't have to watch what you say every minute for fear that someone might get offended about you not believing in their favorite invisible friend.

I got to meet Phil Plait at DragonCon, and had a very enjoyable talk with him about gravity tugs for altering the course of asteroids. Sure, we could have had the conversation via email, but it was more fun in person.

There's an atheist convention in Australia coming up, and I'd like to go, but cannot afford it at the moment. I'd like to go in order to meet people I've only ever spoken with online, make new friends, and visit a part of the world I've never been to before. I suppose you think I should just watch it on YouTube and consider that a vast improvement.

Comment by girlatheist on October 20, 2009 at 6:12pm

Again I think it's a matter of feeling not so very alone in your disbelief. Seeing an atheist idol would be not so different than seeing any other kind of idol (sports, music, etc). It all depends on what you appreciate most and are willing to spend money to see. Agreed that they are just "preaching to the choir" because no believer would likely attend and be converted to atheism.

Comment by Henry Ruddle on October 20, 2009 at 6:29pm

Your daughter asked a good question, one I ask myself often. I see two good reasons for atheists to actively disparage religion. First, it's tribal. Just like the myriad celebrations of ethnic pride such as Cinco de Mayo or St. Patrick's Day by groups that feel or felt underrepresented by mainstream culture, nonbelievers want to celebrate their identity and hang around with like-minded folks. Second, it's a reaction. Mainstream culture and the taboo against talking about religion in polite company support the bogus idea that religion is the source of morality. We remind ourselves of the absurdity of religious doctrines and religion's role as either a cultural parasite or as a useful tool for binding clans together to avoid falling into the "belief in belief" trap that Daniel Dennett so eloquently writes about.

For Mr. Ratzinger, I would offer that I really hope to attend TAM someday, and seriously considered attending the AAI convention in Burbank a couple of weeks ago primarily because I find science and skepticism really interesting, and it's a lot of fun and very comfortable to hang out with people who share a similar viewpoint. That's also why I visit Think Atheist. It's very similar to what anyone with any interest does -- from embroiderers and model train enthusiasts to democrats and republicans -- so I'm not sure why you would be critical of it.

Comment by Dave G on October 20, 2009 at 6:40pm

Henry,

I believe that Mr Ratzinger is not so much critical of people with similar interests meeting as he is of the idea that anyone would spend money to do so.

Comment by Galen on October 20, 2009 at 7:20pm

I would refer your daughter to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt-Mg

Comment by Reggie on October 20, 2009 at 11:22pm

Is your disbelief so weak that it needs constant reinforcing

How can a disbelief be weak? You either believe or you don't. I never have, no matter how hard I tried or wanted to, I couldn't do it. It would be like trying to love someone you just don't love. You can fake it, but you know the truth. So tell me why, after all those years of feeling alone and condemned to hell, trying to believe in something that I just couldn't, despite all the preaching, social pressure, and genuine desire.....would I need to go to TAM to reinforce this "disbelief".

Now, if you wonder why people spend money to go to these events...well, Dave G covered it well with the social angle. I wonder why people spend an ass load of money to go to NFL games. But I wouldn't suspect that it was to reinforce their loyalty to the team. My first guess would be because it is fun for them.

Comment by Dave G on October 21, 2009 at 12:13am

I wonder why people spend an ass load of money to go to NFL games.

I wonder the same thing, but then I remind myself of when I paid $20 to be a player in a D&D game run by Gary Gygax. :)

Comment by everettattebury on November 15, 2009 at 8:39am

I don't think J. Ratzinger's curiosity is genuine. I think he's just being an ass.

Comment by RockyTIJ on November 15, 2009 at 1:14pm

J. Ratzinger aside, I really like girlatheist's story. I've forwarded it to some of my religious and non-religious friends as a great answer to the question.

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