Comment by Cara Coleen on April 12, 2011 at 8:23pm

Oh Jacob.

What else cannot be disproved? The existence of unicorns, leprechauns, fairies, elves, gnomes, Zeus, Ra, etc etc etc (provided they all share the "invisible/silent" characteristic, or if they suddenly disappear when you enter the room). 

Why is it hard to believe in those things, Jacob? They cannot be disproved. In fact you cannot prove you were NOT in Russia last week unless you have an alibi, which is a positive proof. You cannot be in two places at once, therefore you could not have been in Russia if you provide evidence you were somewhere else. God has no alibi; we can't prove he does not exist, but he never seems to show up anywhere at all. There's no positive proof of his existence.

And, if you'll do a bit of research, you'll find that no one is claiming our wonderful world was created from nothing. Ironically, you're claiming something came from nothing: God. You, conveniently, have an excuse for this. He's outside of space and time; he cannot be verified because he's invisible, silent, omnipresent yet intangible. Talk about moving the goal post. Sooo... something as complex as the universe could not have come from nothing, but something much more complex (namely a god) can have come from nothing? Hmmm...

Jacob, you've really answered your own questions. We don't believe a god exists for the same reason you don't believe there are fairies hiding in the garden. Also, if you don't believe something can come from nothing, then it's a contradiction to believe a god can have come from nothing. Does this fact not cause you cognitive dissonance?

Comment by Nelson on April 12, 2011 at 8:25pm

hey Jacob. first, welcome to the community. second, please understand that you're welcome to discuss things with us so as to find some common ground and understand our position a bit better but we do not allow proselytizing.

so if your goal is, as stated on your profile, to "help people hear the word of god so that one day they to can have the happiness and love of god. Also that that they can please god and live in eternal happiness in heaven!" then just back up and re-think your purpose here. 

 

alright. having said that, first of all, you're the one who believes in something created from nothing. if you believe that your god created the universe then you believe he created it from a previously existing state of nothingness.

i personally follow the evidence-based position of the most modern research in cosmology which says that the big bang (presumably what you're talking about when you refer to creation from nothing) was merely an event in the evolution of a perhaps eternally existing universe or that the big bang was what gave birth to this particular universe from a perhaps infinite number of universes making up a multi-verse.

as for your second question, why is it so hard to believe in something that cannot be disproven. i'm not sure what you're asking there. i believe that i'm not a brain attached to a computer program run by an artificial intelligence in the year 3015 but i can't disprove that. the problem isn't that it's hard to believe in something that cannot be disproven. it's not even the issue that something hasn't been proven. it's that there's no evidence justifying a belief in the existence of gods.

let me say again, i'm not talking about outright proof. i'm just talking about a preponderance of evidence. i'm saying that i doubt the resurrection of Jesus, for instance, for the same reason you doubt that Mohammed rose to heaven on a winged-horse- because there's no evidence for this.

 

so i would ask you why you think it's strange of me to do this when you do it too. why the double standard?

Comment by Jacob w on April 12, 2011 at 8:55pm

Well since you asked I will back down.

and im saying that with all the evidence that shows there is a god how can you not believe in it when theres nothing to disprove it and yet there is sooooo much evidence for Him.

Im sorry if you feel as though i am impeeding on this website but i was just trying to do my job.

Comment by Nelson on April 12, 2011 at 8:59pm

i would respond to ask you to show me this evidence. i'd love for you to tell me the best knock down silver bullet evidence you have for the existence of your god. i'm always interested to hear about evidence when someone says they have some.

but remember, you don't believe in every single proposition that might be offered simply because it can't be disproven, why should i? (my arm is made of green cheese but every time someone tries to examine it takes on the appearance of flesh and bone. prove me wrong. no? then surely you believe me, right?)

 

Comment by Jacob w on April 12, 2011 at 9:03pm

@ Cara Coleen

Thats the thing about god! he didnt come from nothing because he has always been. But god also doesnt want us to know everything because we would not be human if we did and if we did know everything there would be no need to follow him.

Comment by Galen on April 12, 2011 at 9:16pm

with all the evidence that shows there is a god

 

>Implying that any such evidence exists

 

I lol'd hard.  Cool story, bro.

Comment by Jacob w on April 12, 2011 at 9:25pm

Umm the hundreds of people healed by miracals of Jesus. Also that Everything written in the bible has so far come true other than the Revelations.

Example: All the prophecies about Christ were fullfiled in his life time. And the BIGGEST fact that jesus resseructed and had thousnads of sights after his crusifixtion. Now are you going to tell me that hundreds of people saw the same man At once after his death?

Comment by Jake W. Andrews on April 12, 2011 at 9:27pm

Change your name. Right now. Go to a court house, find a judge, pay that judge, and change your name.

Comment by Zebadiah Ray Long on April 12, 2011 at 9:30pm

So if I predict something at the beginning of a story and then say it happened at the end, that is evidence? I think you're going to have to do a lot better than that.

 

Taking thing in the bible as fact is the opposite of evidence, it is faith. What is your evidence that Jesus healed people by miracles?

Comment by Zebadiah Ray Long on April 12, 2011 at 9:32pm

"Now are you going to tell me that hundreds of people saw the same man At once after his death?"

 

Where is your evidence that this happened? Outside of the bible? There may be some historical evidence idk, Link or it didn't happen. But even if there is, historical evidence is not scientific evidence. All that would prove is that people at some point said or wrote down that they saw jesus after he died, it wouldn't prove that it actually happened.

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