Why do I bother arguing with fundamentalist Christians? Ridiculous 'debate' on Answers.

I had replied to a question where someone had said that belief in evolution was a religion and he messaged me.

Subject: Evidence for evolution has never existed

Message: If you have evidence show me. I'm calling your bluff.

If you can't, you're just another in a long line of athiest frauds and liars. No real surprise there.

 

I sent him links to short videos and basic articles explaining the significance of Chromosome 2, vestigial organs, fossil evidence and observable evolution happening right now.

I got this reply-


'I asked you for evidence of evolution, not the generic religious web sites that you've never read.

Wake me up when you're ready to communicate on an intellectual level.

Examples of proof that I'll need:

1--Demonstrate that the theory of evolution has been peer reviewed.
2--Demonstrate that the theory has been observed anywhere in nature.
3--Demonstrate that alternative theories have all been falsified in favor of evolution.

All other sciences go through these steps.'

Clearly he had not read them. I explained that evolution has been well peer reviewed by the 95% of scientists who accept it, pointed out that one of the links I had sent him contained information about elephants losing their tusks because they are being hunted for them and gave examples of the way the bible story of creation has been disproved.

 

 Got this - --'No, 95% of scientists don't accept the theory-If you can't show me one species changing into a totally different species, you don't even know what the theory claims..Evidence must fit the theory. That's basic to all sciences, and you don't sound qualified to discuss it. You're still at basically a high school level of understanding'

 

Explained to him that evolution works when a number of small changes happen over many generations and gave hypothetical example using the elephants that were losing their tusks, saying that a great increase in temperature could make leaner,smaller elephants with longer necks better able to survive and that they could then be prey to big cats and then those with the thickest hides would be stronger. Over many generations the elephant could become smaller, thinner, with longer neck, no tusks and a thicker hide and would look very unlike an elephant. New species.

 

I got this -   You're nothing but an arrogant moron practicing a religion of evolution. You're not qualified to understand that you're lying and with your arrogance you likely never will be.

Me - "Please explain to me how else Chromasome 2 can be explained?"

Him - The existence of a chromosome does not prove evolution, and for you to suggest it does demonstrates the depth of your ignorance.

 me - "How vestigial organs can be explained?"

Him - No other science demands to be taken as true until disproven. All sciences must earn their own credibility. Why do you suppose evolution is given special treatment?

  Me - "Fossil evidence?"

  Him - We don't have any. This is the weakest argument you could make because you don't know how to test it for reasonability, the most basic test you could conduct. If you're confused, ask.

   Me -"Observable evolution happening right now?"

   Him - I asked you to give me an example and you failed. Why would you defend your own failure and pretend I just have to believe you? That's how religious people act.

Me - "Get back to me when you have actually looked at the evidence."

  Him - I'm credentialled in science. Rather than getting emotional, try thinking. You're not even in my league.

 

Me - You can lead a Christian to knowledge but you can't make him think.

 

No reply yet but I am not going to respond if he does reply. I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.

Views: 518

Comment by Pierre H. Vachon on September 8, 2011 at 3:05pm

"I'm credentialled in science"

Now that is pure, grade-A, typical creationist BS. No one is "credentialled" in science. You get a PhD in an actual scientific discipline, do actual research and regularly publish in peer-reviewed, recognized scientific journals. That makes you a scientist. Anything less than these three criteria makes you a mendacious, lying fraud (like those guys in the Discovery Institute) if you try to pass yourself as being "authoritative" in anything scientific.

 

You are right - no point debating such a closed, primitive-minded, pretentious ignoramus.

Comment by Dale Headley on September 8, 2011 at 3:14pm

   Hardly a day goes by that another piece of evidence isn't added to the mountain already accumulated for evolution.  At the same time, NOTHING has ever turned up that even begins to pierce the wall of reason and science that surrounds evolution.  In fact, there has NEVER been a scientific theory so thoroughly examined and corroborated as the Theory of Evolution.  By the same token, thousands of years of trying hard to find evidence for God has failed to come up with a scintilla of evidence.  Evolution HAPPENED; it has ALWAYS happened since life got started; it WILL always happen; it HAS to happen.  It cannot NOT happen.  As the great biologist, Theodosius Dobzhansky, famously said, "Nothing in biology makes any sense, except in the light of evolution."  AMEN!   

Comment by Rebecca Shockley on September 8, 2011 at 5:43pm

Wow. Is he projecting. Who's emotional and ignorant? Sounds like you were talking to my in-laws. You are going to need some aspirin to get through this debate.

Comment by Kairan Nierde on September 8, 2011 at 9:38pm

Getting emotional...lol. 

Comment by Ron V on September 8, 2011 at 10:08pm

With respect to Evolution, I would refer him to any of the following:

On The Origin of Species

Darwin's Ghost

The Complete World of Human Evolution

The 10000 Year Explosion

The Greatest Show On Earth

and ask for his specific refutations of the evidence in these books. 

There are specific examples in each of these books that address his objections.  But I get the sense this person is actually not well educated in science and probably has not and will not read any of these books.

Comment by Ron V on September 8, 2011 at 10:12pm

And, at the core of all "religion" is a belief in the supernatural or "spirituality."  Evolution is not a religion.

With respect to a peer-reviewed article- here's one from my area of expertise:

http://asheducationbook.hematologylibrary.org/cgi/reprint/2009/1/3

 

 

Comment by James on September 8, 2011 at 11:15pm

Geez, sounds like you've got a real winner on your hands...

 

Lets give this  a shot:

Demonstrate that the theory of evolution has been peer reviewed.

Just about the entire field of biology. Remember, nothing in biology makes sense without evolution. 

 

Demonstrate that the theory has been observed anywhere in nature.

Fossil record, vestigial organs, DNA, salamander speciation in California, Lizards in Australia evolving the ability to give live birth in different areas, Peppered Moth, bacteria (antibiotics need constant updating), etc etc etc...

 

Demonstrate that alternative theories have all been falsified in favor of evolution.

One need not disprove every possible alternative to be false in order to show something to be true. All we must do is find that the evidence supports and points to the conclusion in question. In the case of evolution, it is the only explanation that supports all the data we have. Second of all, this argument can be turned on him. He can't claim his religion to be true, if he hasn't disproved  every other religion, if we are to go by his claim.

 

If you can't show me one species changing into a totally different species, you don't even know what the theory claims. 

Wow... He claims you don't have an understanding of evolution, yet it's clear that he's the one misinformed (or ignorant). It sounds as if he wants a time lapse video that shows a chicken turning into a camel within a single lifetime. Not even close to what they theory of evolution by way of natural selection forecasts.

 

The existence of a chromosome does not prove evolution, and for you to suggest it does demonstrates the depth of your ignorance.

The fused Chromosome 2 actually does show our kinship to other apes. The fact of teh matter is, that if we did have a different number of chromosomes than Chimps, without the fused pair we do, then it would be proof that we do not share a common ancestor with them. However, we do have that fused pair, which coupled with the staggeringly close the Chimp genome mirrors ours makes it plain to see that we are evolutionary cousins.

 

No other science demands to be taken as true until disproven. All sciences must earn their own credibility. Why do you suppose evolution is given special treatment?

*faceplam* Evolution doesn't get special treatment, the fact is that the evidence all shows that evolution is true, again and again. We don't say vestigial organ? Shrug our shoulders and say that it must be evolution. Rather science looks at the organ present in us and when compared with simpl

Comment by Doug Reardon on September 8, 2011 at 11:43pm

Accept the fact that this guy is a jerk and an idiot, and move on.

Comment by Ron V on September 8, 2011 at 11:56pm
Comment by Jesse Smith on September 9, 2011 at 1:06am

Helen, you beat wholesale ass in that "debate".
I'd go with crying over laughing though, the fact that people can be that blatantly stupid is honestly depressing to me. But, as long as people like you are around I'll have a tiny glimmer of the intelligence humanity can display. So, maybe I won't completely lose hope; and, for that I thank you.

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