Comment by Shine on February 12, 2010 at 12:45pm

Trevauhn, I understand the structure and purpose of a parable; much like Aesop's fable, these anecdotes provide an emotional hook to make an impression upon the reader (or listener). I do not condemn the Bible--which I still recognize as an important part of history--for the use of common literary devices.

However, in addition to the parables, metaphors, and poetry found in the Bible, the text is also rife with internal contradiction, plot incoherence, and technical/historical inaccuracy. Of course, this is true of many ancient texts to which we readily assign human authorship. The problem arises in the assertion that the Bible is of a divine origin; if the author is omnipotent and omniscient, why would they choose to allow a text with so many errors to prevail?

If we view the Bible as the collection of mythologies from the first millenium B.C., we can still recognize the sociological impact and massive cultural impact of the text. (And, yes, I am including the New Testament in this description as much of the Jesus narrative was specifically tailored to align with Old Testament prophecies.) While mythologies provide a fascinating glimpse into the worldview of ancient peoples, it is imperative that we do not elevate these tales to reign over our rational endeavors or to obscure our critical analysis of reality.

I feel that the voluntary intellectual shackles of religion are one of the saddest plights to which a person can succumb.

Comment by Trevauhn Grant on February 12, 2010 at 12:50pm

that youtube thing was funny...you do have a sense of humor. But I hope this isn't your main source of information. though satire and dude pushing his ideas through the satire is funny and all. It just isn't a very worthy source. At least use wikipedia as a starting point or something. Jean i thought of you better than that.

Comment by Trevauhn Grant on February 12, 2010 at 12:51pm

I mean really, you're attempting to interpret ancient texts based on today's modern thoughts.

Comment by Trevauhn Grant on February 12, 2010 at 1:14pm

wow...Shine, baby got back. That's some real fancy writing there girl ::in my southern redneck voice:: I asked the question on the other blog entry if you were indeed speaking about the bible's accuracy as it relates to history or what not. And I take it you are speaking of that.

Let's think common sense for a little bit. Not atheist or theist, just common sense. (sorry for the incomplete sentences, I know you're well educated and it's probably a pet-peeve). If the bible was perfect in every way, as you assert it should be, would you then follow it? would you then worship God? I dear you to say YES out loud....

The real issue is not it's historical correctness, because the bible is actually the younger of what is considered ancient historical documents. The issue has nothing to do with weather it has errors, because the Dead Sea Scrolls can prove true to it's original authors. The issue is your willingness to accept what it says, your willingness to hear. ::those who have ears to hear, let them hear:: Ancient writers, as you should know, are not all that concerned about historical accuracy. Unless the document is labeled Chronicles. They were more concerned about getting a message across to the generations to come or simply getting the message to the person down the street. Most of the New Testament are letters written from one person to another. I doubt historical accuracy was on the forefront of their minds. I'm not hitting the OT yet, because there are just so many things and most of the answer can be found in the NT anyways. I do have to eat, thank you shine for your response, it was valuable.

You're da bomb!!

Comment by Trevauhn Grant on February 12, 2010 at 1:16pm

Yes God chose humans. Human beings who made mistakes. and even though they made mistakes, I believe they got God's heart in the words and they left it for me to read, so i'm going to read it and believe and have faith. BAM BABY

Comment by Katie Roberts on February 12, 2010 at 1:22pm

"But I hope this isn't your main source of information... It just isn't a very worthy source."

In my experience people say this sort of thing when they have been seriously rattled. I remember my sister being very scornful after she'd read the Why Doesn't God Heal Amputees website, which I'd recommended. I still have her email: she says, "I read why doesn't god heal amputees and a more ignorant summary is probably hard to find, if that is where you are getting knowledge from it's hardly selective." She's now also an atheist - it wasn't even very long afterwards.

The way I see it Trevauhn, if one can recognise the truth of something it matters very little where you find it. This is the value of learning to think critically - having learnt (or if we're lucky, been taught as a child) HOW to think rather than WHAT to think. Then we are in a position to learn valuable things from pretty much anything, no matter how "lowbrow"! Humour is a very effective tool in highlighting the inconsistencies of religion - if there was no truth in it wouldn't be funny, now would it?!

Comment by Trevauhn Grant on February 12, 2010 at 1:26pm

"if one can recognise the truth of something it matters very little where you find it." Wow that's pretty good. But don't you think adding laughter to a message, even if it's not true, can make the message more acceptable. So instead of taking a message that has been (in my words) tainted. Why not look to a source that doesn't beg for subjective acceptance.

Comment by Trevauhn Grant on February 12, 2010 at 1:44pm

Jean in response to your first question: One thing we've missed these many years as Christians and as far as human understanding goes, is that God is relational. Example: If I set up a profile on eharmony to find my true love, you know what, i'm not gonna post a picture of how big my penis is. Simply because I might get too many responses back from women who just want me sexually. I'm looking for true love, not just sex. So i'm going to put up stuff that illustrates my personality and my desire for real love, so I can weed out those who actually want sex as opposed to real love...that's the best I can do in a short span of time.

Same here with God. He's looking for true love, those who truly want him will get him. Jean, if you honestly say that I desire to have God. Guess what, you will be redeemed. AND THAT'S BOTTOM LINE.. That is why an atheist will not understand. Because you are reading the bible to disprove it. You're not reading the bible to find God and love him.

God gives all the answers in the Bible. the book of Hebrews has detailed explanations of God's actions in the Old Testament. Jesus explains his parables. the book of Luke and Acts explains why God chose the Jews to reveal himself. Paul's epistles explain the heart of God, what he likes, what he doesn't like, and how you can get to know him, and what will happen when you do know him. This bible is a relationship book, not just meant for history. The whole point is to get back to that place like what was in the garden, when God would come down in the middle of the day and come hang out. that is what God is all about. He wants to throw a party, but no party crashers allowed, so therefore, Jesus will speak in parables to weed them out.

Comment by Trevauhn Grant on February 12, 2010 at 2:13pm

yeah it was lame....whatever, i tried....i never said I was a linguist or trained in the art of rhetoric. Jean use some imagination will you please. I'm begging.

Comment by Trevauhn Grant on February 12, 2010 at 2:16pm

you're pretty kind by whose standards. you have high morals by whose standards. I'm sure Hilter said he was pretty kind to white blue eyed people too. He helped his community alright, actually he started an expansion program. TAKE OVER the WORLD; or atleast run it. The issue isn't about being good. Jesus did not come to make bad people good, he came to make dead people alive. Jesus came to reestablish the relationship between humanity and God.

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