When we don't talk about God... pt 1 Politics, Religion and Sports...

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There’s very little that we can actually talk about that wouldn’t, in some way, correlate, and in one way or another be linked too, if not be directly affiliated with God.  It doesn’t matter if your conversations linger on the weather, which is set in motion by its’ creator, or if you prefer to discuss the fundamentals of Tchaikovsky and the music of the romantic period, which flows from the creative and passionate parts of our persons, which are systemic of the image we bear, being that of God Himself.  Perhaps you prefer to discuss the health and progress of the years’ crop which is a direct result of both your efforts to work the ground, mans original job given by God, and natures affects on them, again something set in motion by the creator.

            However we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses that fervently work hard to avoid the very thought of bringing God into a conversation (yes even ‘Christians’).  There are those who desperately want nothing to do with God, or at least a god that would expect anything from them, or maybe a god that didn’t offer the easy answers, or was too confusing, or made one feel as though they were ‘bad’.  These are those who are either unwilling to allow any god other themselves have any say in their ‘reality’, or they are simply ignorant about God.  Although even a “proper education” about God does not guarantee ones willingness to participate with Him, much less believe in, or want anything to do with Him. 

            And as this is the world that we live in, God gets lumped in with politics, because God is viewed as a system of control.  Or He’s thrown in with sports, because it always depends on who’s team you side with.  God becomes a taboo cliché.  “Don’t talk about politics, or religion, and stay away from sports if you want to play it safe.”  So our conversations, no matter how relevant to God and the one who gave meaning to language, are driven into a dark corner where we have to be ever so careful not to mention a perfect God or how much He loves us. 

            Yet even Christians are riddled with misunderstandings about who God is and how He fits into a world that is crazy and angry, and sad, and confused, and looking for meaning.  And so they feel as though they are backed into a corner, yet in reality they are finding themselves in the very same place that those who don’t understand God and our relationship with Him, are in. 

            So because we don’t know how to talk about God specifically, we avoid the conversation altogether.  We are bombarded with the demand to “shut up already” by those we thought were safe to talk too.  This mentality then comes to work with us, comes into our homes, even to church with us, and we are so burdened with fear of being unsure of who is safe to talk about God with.  This fear leaves us speechless and powerless, and ultimately builds in us the same attitude that caused us to remain silent in the first place.  Where we then adopt the “don’t talk to me about god” view. 

            There are innumerable conversations every day where God is present and moving, and relevant, and good where we juke and dodge and do whatever we can to avoid the ‘imposing concept’ of god.  It is a conversation that you can run from but will never be able to completely hide from, as it is ultimately the conversation everyone is having without intending too.  So instead of intentionally and tactfully looking for ways to avoid Him, be ready to be encountered by Him and moved by Him and used by Him to be empowered to talk about politics, and religion and sports.

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Comment by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on February 1, 2014 at 5:13am

        There are innumerable conversations every day where God is present and moving, and relevant.

I assume you mean the Christian god. Are these two-way conversations? What does his voice sound like? If you cannot hear his voice then it is only in your head. If he is present do you claim to see him? If not he is only in your head. So if you cannot actually see him or hear his voice how do you know he is present. What evidence have you that “HE” is not the God of some other religion. If you reply to my questions I suspect your only evidence will be your subjective opinion.

It is a conversation that you can run from but will never be able to completely hide from, as it is ultimately the conversation everyone is having without intending too.

Could you also describe your God for me so I might understand better what you mean? If possible could you give me the top three reasons you still believe in your God? Then we can start a conversation. I promise not to run away from it, if you want to engage in one with me, in the spirit of 1 Peter 3:15.

Comment by David Smith on February 1, 2014 at 10:45am

I will comment on some of your points in a similar way as presented above.  These are my opinions, however, I will state them as fact-

"There’s very little that we can actually talk about that wouldn’t, in some way, correlate, and in one way or another be linked too, if not be directly affiliated with God."

There is no correlation or link from the average small talk to the topic of 'god' that's not fabricated.

"God gets lumped in with politics, because God is viewed as a system of control."

'god' gets lumped in with politics as manipulation and control is the primary use of the concept to begin with.

"There are innumerable conversations every day where God is present and moving, and relevant, and good"

Your god is not present, moving or relevant, unless made so by people who cant accept existence on face value.  

What you have done here is, in a very long winded way, is said 'god is good, lets talk more about him'.  Well, you'l get a conversation about 'god' here no problem, but from me personally, you wont get an agreement that the there is anything good about the twisted myth.

Comment by Emperor Milos on February 1, 2014 at 11:19am

Allow me to start with this...

If you reply to ANY of my questions with the bible, or personal experience, or faith, you have already lost and have no business being here. If you are here to give us the "God did it because the bible says so, and the bible says so because God did it", do us all a favour and don't bother.

Now that we have the formalities out of the way... Let's get started, shall we?

There’s very little that we can actually talk about that wouldn't, in some way, correlate, and in one way or another be linked too, if not be directly affiliated with God.

Allow me to rephrase this to sound a bit more correct.
;;Ahem;; "There's very little that we can actually talk about that wouldn't, in some way, be correlated, and in one way or another be linked to, if not be claimed to be directly affiliated with my particular god."

  It doesn't matter if your conversations linger on the weather, which is set in motion by its’ creator,

Based on what evidence?

or if you prefer to discuss the fundamentals of Tchaikovsky and the music of the romantic period, which flows from the creative and passionate parts of our persons, which are systemic of the image we bear, being that of God Himself.

Based on what evidence? Also, does that mean that all the bloodlust and violence is an image we bear, being that of god himself, since he is one bloodthirsty motherfucker.

  Perhaps you prefer to discuss the health and progress of the years’ crop which is a direct result of both your efforts to work the ground, mans original job given by God, and natures affects on them, again something set in motion by the creator.

Based on what evidence is this our original job and was set in motion by your particular god?

Is it just me or do we already see a trend forming here...

            However we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses that fervently work hard to avoid the very thought of bringing God into a conversation (yes even ‘Christians’).

What?! Christians are screaming from the fucking mountain tops and doing everything in their power to be as visible, vocal and powerful as they possibly can. Have you seen the news in the last 10+ years?

  There are those who desperately want nothing to do with God, or at least a god that would expect anything from them, or maybe a god that didn't offer the easy answers, or was too confusing, or made one feel as though they were ‘bad’.

Or is completely imaginary and a huge waste of time, an insult to ones own intellect, self respect, and anathema to any meaningful societal and cultural progress of our species.

  These are those who are either unwilling to allow any god other themselves have any say in their ‘reality’,

Because there are no gods. When there is any evidence for a god, I would like to sit down with him and have a discussion. IF he can give a reasonable argument for his incompetence over the past 4.3 billion years, I might give him some say in my 'reality'.

Until that day comes (and it never will), I will happily stick to actual proven reality and leave imaginary friends to children.

Also, the "any god other than themselves" bit is nothing but ignorant bullshit. To say that people don't believe in god because they want to be god is just fucking dumb. And I mean that in the nicest way possible. That is such a tired, old cliche. What next, are you gonna tell us that we are just mad at god?

or they are simply ignorant about God.

You'd think that if he was omnipotent and omnipresent everyone would know about him. But hey, can't expect him to do it all... Not like he's god or something.

  Although even a “proper education” about God does not guarantee ones willingness to participate with Him,

And by "proper education" you mean the education you think they need. Got it!

much less believe in, or want anything to do with Him. 

You are right about that, though. Most people who put in any actual intelligent effort into educating themselves about "Him" can't get the fuck away from him fast enough.

            And as this is the world that we live in, God gets lumped in with politics, because God is viewed as a system of control.

Because the notion of god IS a system of control. Do what I say, obey me, do not think. If you disobey, you will die, and then I will torture you forever. But I love you!

  Or He’s thrown in with sports, because it always depends on who’s team you side with.  God becomes a taboo cliché.

I sort of agree. Except I think you used the wrong term. God is more of a joke than a taboo cliche. His image has become such a cartoon character that it becomes almost impossible not to see how made up it all is (unless you are "properly educated").

  “Don’t talk about politics, or religion, and stay away from sports if you want to play it safe.” 

So our conversations, no matter how relevant to God and the one who gave meaning to language,

Based on what evidence? ...man I need to just copy that to my clipboard...

are driven into a dark corner where we have to be ever so careful not to mention a perfect God or how much He loves us. 

Because there is no evidence for any god, let alone a perfect one... And he sure as shit has a weird way of showing us love. It almost looks like he either doesn't give a shit and lets things just happen, or he doesn't exist. I wonder which one makes more sense...

            Yet even Christians are riddled with misunderstandings about who God is and how He fits into a world that is crazy and angry, and sad, and confused, and looking for meaning.

But I bet YOU have all the answers! Lay it on us, professor!

  And so they feel as though they are backed into a corner, yet in reality they are finding themselves in the very same place that those who don’t understand God and our relationship with Him, are in.

This all sounds like a pretty big case of generalization and judgement, even for a Christian. 

            So because we don’t know how to talk about God specifically, we avoid the conversation altogether. We are bombarded with the demand to “shut up already” by those we thought were safe to talk too.

  This mentality then comes to work with us, comes into our homes, even to church with us, and we are so burdened with fear of being unsure of who is safe to talk about God with.

I'm sorry, but what are you talking about? Christians are unbelievably vocal in every fucking aspect of society. 

  This fear leaves us speechless and powerless, and ultimately builds in us the same attitude that caused us to remain silent in the first place.  Where we then adopt the “don’t talk to me about god” view. 

            There are innumerable conversations every day where God is present and moving, and relevant, and good where we juke and dodge and do whatever we can to avoid the ‘imposing concept’ of god.

No, dude. There are zero conversations where god is present or moving (because he isn't real) and he is only relevant because he has been forced into every corner of society during that wonderful time where the church had full control and would murder punish anyone who disagreed.

  It is a conversation that you can run from but will never be able to completely hide from, as it is ultimately the conversation everyone is having without intending too.

It is a conversation that you can't hide from because the Christians never shut the fuck up about their fucking god. 

  So instead of intentionally and tactfully looking for ways to avoid Him, be ready to be encountered by Him and moved by Him and used by Him

Are you threatening us?

to be empowered to talk about politics, and religion and sports.

Not too sure what reality you exist in, but the faith heads never stop blabbing about god in politics, and sports. I won't even bother to mention religion because to think that religion doesn't include god is just silly.

Now for the exciting conclusion...

What I have just read sounds a whole lot like a case of persecution complex. Do you for one second actually think that you are being oppressed in any way because of your religion? In America?! Do you honestly think that Christians in America are "afraid" to talk publicly about their god? 

The reason people want you to "shut up about god" is because you have zero right to push your fucking imaginary friend onto unwilling people. Keep your fucking god where he belongs, inside your churches and inside your heads, and keep him out of the public square. 

Until that happens, you will continue to be told to shut up about god, and for good reason.

Reading things like this makes me weep for humanity, and my head want to explode.

Oh yeah... Welcome to TA.

Comment by Jonathan Burian on February 1, 2014 at 11:25am
First I'd like say that I appreciate everything you guys are saying, especially the way in which you are saying it..

So I guess in regards to proving God is present and relevant it is the same way that I can do my best to prove to you that my wife loves me. There's experiences I can share, truths and evidences and arguments that I would look to, but still I can never actually know my wife loves me, or prove to you that she does, but I am confident based on those truths, evidences, arguments that she does, the same way that I am confident that God is present and relevant (we can talk more about what they are specifically if interested). Perhaps it is subjective since it is from my perspective, yet it is not irrelevant, because it is the human experience. A life experience.

I cannot say that I have heard His voice audibly, or seen Him physically, but in my reality I have experienced Him.

In regards to the consideration that we created God in our image not the other way around. I would look at History and look at God, and from the Beginning God has not reflected humanity, but has stood in contrast to human nature... always. It is our nature to be self preserving, not self sacrificing. I am willing to entertain that conversation however. If God in fact was created by man, as I will concede that many are, I'm unsure why people, namely Atheists, would be intent on proving that such a unifying and loving and hopeful and a group of people taking care of each other is unreal and untrue. Even if the human condition is useless and pointless, the hope God gives is infinitely more beneficial for that human condition.

Sorry to not respond to each point made, I spoke to the ones that stuck out to me without jumping back to each comment. I will be happy to discuss more...
Comment by Jonathan Burian on February 1, 2014 at 11:32am

Emperor Milos, You've written a lot, I will make an effort to read it all today, but I want to just respond to your first comment.  If my personal experiences make me an invalid candidate to participate in this site, I would say the same for you.  There is actually not way to prove God does not exist (which is literally what Atheist means) outside of those same precepts that you deny me...

Comment by Emperor Milos on February 1, 2014 at 11:40am

If God in fact was created by man, as I will concede that many are, I'm unsure why people, namely Atheists, would be intent on proving that such a unifying and loving and hopeful and a group of people taking care of each other is unreal and untrue.

I'm just gonna leave this here...

When people ask me why I have a problem with religion...

Even if the human condition is useless and pointless,

What exactly is the "human condition", and why is it useless and pointless?

the hope God gives is infinitely more beneficial for that human condition.

Ah, yes... How far we would have made it if we just relied on god instead of the human condition and need for survival.

Comment by Emperor Milos on February 1, 2014 at 12:37pm

Emperor Milos, You've written a lot, I will make an effort to read it all today, but I want to just respond to your first comment.  If my personal experiences make me an invalid candidate to participate in this site, I would say the same for you. 

Really? Because I don't base my beliefs on personal experience at all. I base them on observable, testable and verifiable facts. And when I don't have an answer to something, I am more than happy to say "I don't know, and I may never know... We'll see." and not "I don't know, therefore a invisible sky wizard who is also his own demi-god son who is born of a virgin and hates fig trees. Oh, yeah! He's also a ghost!"

There is actually not way to prove God does not exist (which is literally what Atheist means) outside of those same precepts that you deny me...

Except for the whole thing where atheism doesn't mean that at all...

Atheism = Lack of belief in gods. Derived from atheos (= without, theos = gods).

Also, just because you can't disprove something doesn't mean that therefore it must exist.
By that notion, every single god in the history of our species must be real, because you can't disprove them.

I am simply taking the more honest approach and taking things in stride. I go where the evidence is. When evidence is shown to disprove a belief I hold, I change my mind, and I never base my life around what I don't know and follow the first answer given to me as a child.

And either way, you don't need to disprove god to disprove god, you need to simply disprove his book. And the bible has been thoroughly debunked as nothing more than myth and fable with a sprinkle of a tiny bit of actual history.

Comment by Jonathan Burian on February 1, 2014 at 12:41pm

It's quite an assumption to make that Christians sent the human progresssion back to the dark ages, and not the depravity of man which is what ended the Roman empire. (I would quote you in saying "based on what evidence?") Your graph is an illustration of the depravity of human nature, even if it used 'Christianity' as a system of control, you're missing the point of Christianity, which is not to override and control.  The call of Christ was taken by mankind and manipulated to suit their desires and power lust.  If you base your view of God or Christianity on mans efforts, and fallen nature than you have completely missed Gods work and call.  Man cannot embody God, but falls painfully short every time.  We try and are made new and our wrecked nature is worked out of us but is never fully removed while we are here. 

I can see where you're coming from in some of your responses, such as Christians babbling on and shouting from mountain tops, however the problem I'm trying to address in this article is that those conversations aren't about God they are about the person, and they are carrying the title Christian with them. Even those conversations that are badgering and belittling are not in fact conversations about God they are actually about the self-righteousness of said person.  I believe that conversations about God would actually look like the conversations that Jesus had about God.  He never force fed anyone to believe in God, He never pushed His 'religion' on anyone, but you must concede to recognize that it is our moral duty to talk about God, just like Jesus did, or we would in fact not be believing in what we claimed.  (All are in need of salvation)

If in anyway this came across as an attack or 'threat' I apologize it was not my intention what so ever, but to simply stimulate the conversation. 

I do not feel persecuted, however I see that many people are angry at the topic of God, and claim that it is because the "stupidity" of it all infuriates.  I would be happy to engage you in a reasonable conversation about God without outbursts and accusations.  Intelligence is had by many, even those overshadowed by the outspoken.  

| Lay it on us professor

I do not in any way claim to know it all, and in fact write this article in an effort to encourage the willingness to learn. My word choice for "Proper Education" is intended to suggest that even in a "Proper Education" setting you can still the 'facts' wrong.  Maybe to imply that proper education is not a degree, or a know it all attitude, but something more. 

Comment by Jonathan Burian on February 1, 2014 at 1:32pm

Belle I appreciate that, and don't feel attacked at all, in fact I feel very safe, so thank you. 

I do believe sin is the human default. I observe it, and I am it.  I have never experienced a person no matter how 'good' to be without. 

Emperor Milos.  can you expound on what you mean when you say "Observable, Testable, and Verifiable facts." 

Comment by Jonathan Burian on February 1, 2014 at 1:33pm

Belle, sorry I didn't really finish my answer to your question... no it doesn't sit right with me, but it is a reality that I cannot deny...

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