Comment by Apple on July 16, 2010 at 9:52am

Have you applied your newly gained CEO knowledge in the business world?

Comment by Rocky Oliver (LotusGeek) on July 16, 2010 at 12:32pm

Not to mention that, when the brain is in an "altered state", we tend to see what we want to see - think acid trips, peyote, and so on. Now it has been shown that when the brain is beginning to experience a lack of oxygen it starts shutting down higher order stuff first - stuff where we discern reality from fantasy, perception, audiovisual processing, and so on. Once the breaks come off the real/fantasy filter (which is one of the first things to do) then people tend to see what they wanted to see, things that are commonly described as being "in the back of my mind" come forth, and so on.

As a counterbalance to your experience, let me give you a quick summary of my own. I was involved in a very bad car accident in 1995. I had the following injuries:

BROKEN BONES
right ankle
left and right legs, at the knees, both tib/fibs, "plateau" breaks (meaning the lower floor of my knees were shattered)
dislocated and broken left hip
left scapula
left cheekbone and ocular socket floor
3 right ribs (lower)

OTHER
right punctured lung
multiple lacerations in the face, neck, and front of head requiring over 400 stitches
lost five pints of blood before ambulance got there

I was a mess. I was in grave condition, and coded in the ambulance (death #1); brought back after a couple of minutes. Then 24 hours later the cause of my accident made itself known (it was a single-car accident - I blacked out behind the wheel on the highway, doing 70, passing someone - and I hit and went up the center median wall, causing my truck to flip, spin, and roll for hundreds of yards). I had a pulse-less ventricular tachycardia (a "v-tach"), which is like a heart attack (death #2). I was hit with the paddles twice.

Now in both of these deaths I thought of my kids. I saw parts of my life, good and bad. I even remember, vaguely, being hit with those damned paddles (like being hit in the chest with a 2x4, hard, and you can't catch your breath). But the difference is that I didn't EXPECT some "white light", some cosmic experience. I was firmly grounded in my (lack of) beliefs, had been for years, so I saw nothing mystical or magical.

We see what we want to see. What our lower level brain functions tell us to see. No mystery.

Incidentally I'm doing pretty well. I have good days, and I have bad days. The only visible scarring in my face and neck is on my neck itself (yay for corrective plastic surgery!). I am on a pain management program that helps me stay functional for my family, including my kids and brand new grandson.

And I'm still an atheist.

Comment by Radu Andreiu on July 16, 2010 at 4:18pm

Oh, I think I'm starting to see a clear picture here. "It took me over three years to integrate this experience with the help of other NDErs" is what you said. Now, believe it or not, but memories really do get altered with time and suggestion from others. The fact that you only fully interpreted your experience after three years and that you did it by talking about it with others, brings up a feature of the human brain that is well tested: suggestibility over time. Many people believe all kinds of things that are contradictory with your beliefs but which have similar origins.

Anyway, the human brain unleashes a surge of electricity when it's dying making you experience things from white lights to Jesus, or universal consciousness. If there was a belief in a flying pink unicorn, than people would have surely experienced this entity when close to death. Also, when you talked with others who had near death experience, did they tell you they experienced similar things, or were these experiences different? Statistically speaking, in the countries where Christianity is the leading religion, God or Jesus are the main figures that people see in cases like this one, while in the countries where other religions dominate, of course, others are the experiences recorded by people. So, why are their experiences unreal, while yours is not?

Comment by Galen on July 16, 2010 at 6:29pm

I hope they can figure out which part of the brain to stimulate to trigger a NDE. I'd like to have one, without the whole "being near death" thing. Sounds friggin' sweet!

Comment by JWSummers on July 17, 2010 at 7:53am

What questions did you ask that was answered? What were the answers?

Comment by Pesci on July 17, 2010 at 11:44am

I've always been puzzled at the fascination with NDE's. The experience is easily reproduced by scientists. Pilots have known about this for years as they experience it in flight simulators. I'm sure it feels real but (as with prayer) we know that feeling something doesn't make it valid.

Comment by Renshia on July 17, 2010 at 12:01pm

So the sum total of all things is what I call God.

So basically you have just redefined god to suit your hallucination and decided it was true. That's very convenient of you.

Comment by willailla on July 17, 2010 at 3:07pm

You should have asked for the next big winning lottery number.

Comment by Rocky Oliver (LotusGeek) on July 17, 2010 at 5:46pm

@PJ - I imagine, based on Lekatt's post (and other posts), that he knows this is more philosophical than scientific - and that there's no peer-reviewed scientific studies on NDEs. Also, I didn't read his post as the typical "I'm right/you're wrong - AND GOING TO HELL, YOU HEATHEN!" post. He simply shared with us his reason for why he thinks there's some sort of afterlife, based upon his powerful personal experience. However I definitely can understand being somewhat jaded, since we (atheists) get stuff like that A LOT.

@Galen - that would be kewl, wouldn't it? It would also be a great way to EXACTLY figure out what happens to a brain during a NDE. As others have stated, there are a ton of similarities between people's NDE experiences - which means it has to do with what parts of the brain are firing (and dying) when, what happens next, etc.

@JWSummers - that's a good question; a question for which I'd like to know the answer as well. @Lekatt, can you share this with us?

@Renshia - Sounds like a variation of "God of the Gaps", doesn't it? At least we know up-front that his definition of what the word "god" means is different from the standard definition.

Comment by Lekatt on July 18, 2010 at 12:50am

Thanks LotusGeek (aka Rocky Oliver) for the try, but I think this discussion has gone into the black hole of anger and hate.

I will try to answer some of the questions pointed out because I feel you wanted to hear them.

No one has been able to reproduce a near death experience with anything short of clinical death. Even then some have the experience and some don't. Yes, it would be wonderful if it could be reproduced bringing the profound changes to the individual that a real experience does. We could change the world in just a few short years into a place without war and violence. The experience gives one a whole new perspective on life due to the knowledge received, and with the knowledge comes unconditional love, acceptance, and compassion. There is no anger or hate anymore to take out on others.

Now what I asked was the usual "What is going on?, How did this come about, etc." The transfer of knowledge comes in "bundles" of thought, large amounts of understanding at once. Unfortunately not all the knowledge can be brought back into the physical life where there are no words, or concepts to support it. I did ask one specific question: "has God now or in the past ever punished anyone for anything." The answer was "no, people punish themselves, and they even choose the methods that punishment will take." Having an understanding of what this means leads me to try to inform others, but I don't have a stake in their believing or not believing anything. There is nothing to save anyone from but themselves."

I know it sounds crazy to those without the experience, but my site was built to help others understand what I now understand. There are 11 pages of thank you letters from readers.

I hadn't intended to show this link, but I since this is my last post, I will show it and if someone wants to read it ok, and if not, ok, also, I can't say it has been fun.

http://www.aleroy.com/blog/2010/06/near-death-experiences-real-glim...

I won't mind you deleting it if you wish.

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