Hey all, I just wanted to throw a few questions out there that you can try out on any believers you know.

-Do you think that good decent people deserve to go to hell?

If they answer yes to this, which they probably will. Then answer back with this.

-Ok, so you say that those people don't deserve to go to hell. So then answer this, let's say that those people didn't believe in god, and these people are good decent people. But the thing is they didn't believe in god, and yet they did good in their life or were a decent person. But yet according to the bible, god will send them to hell because they didn't believe. Does this make sense to you?

-Ask them about what they define as "sin". If they say sin is commiting crimes, rape, murder etc..., then say that you understand. Then proceed to ask them if people who murder, rape etc deserve to go to heaven.

Then they'll probably say no, then you may remind them that jesus says all sins will be forgiven if they just believe in him. Then point what's wrong with this logic to them by saying this, so if jesus forgives all "sins" including rape, murder etc.... Then that means that by that logic that all those people are going to heaven because they believed in jesus even though they raped, or murdered or did something really heinous in their life. Then ask them if they'd like to go to heaven knowing that murderers etc are in heaven since all they had to do was just believe in jesus.

-A good question that I just thought of recently would go something like this, you'd like this one and the person your telling this to would be all squirmy. Let's say that a week from now you found out I had passed away, then let's just say that somehow you found out that I'd gone to hell, how would that make you feel? Would you still believe in god if you knew I was in hell? Now that question right there is good for all of you out there who would ask your parent/s that question.

I know there's more questions out there, but I thought I'd throw up what I thought would be 3 of the most important one's I can think of.

Views: 22

Comment by ZachsMind on July 6, 2010 at 8:32pm
By the time you get to "let's say that those people didn't believe in god..." the scenario is already complex enough for a good apologist to weasel their way out of. Arguments must be far more concise and specific. Your approach means you really need to flow chart it. At points they will usually say yes or no but what if they give the answer you weren't expecting? Where do you go from there?

I'm trying to focus on shorter zingers that don't get convoluted. The more complex you make your 'what if' scenario, the easier it is for them to worm their way out of it. whydoesgodhateamputees.com is satisfying. I've yet to hear a response from a Believer on that score that makes any sense. For more suggestions from this same web designer, I'm finding the ones over at GodIsImaginary.com intriguing.

Prayer demonstrably just doesn't work beyond a placebo effect. They will have personal accounts they've experienced or that friends have experienced. That's called anecdotal evidence and hearsay rarely holds up in court and never holds up in a science lab. None of this 'proof of prayer' is repeatable under controlled conditions. It's all circumstantial evidence. It can't be demonstrated. So prayer is easy to disprove.

The bible is chock full of internal contradictions and outdated immoral judgment. If god is supposed to be eternal, why does his book still demand stoning for all kinds of stupid crap that mighta made sense thousands of years ago but doesn't today? There. You just proved the bible is not eternal.

If a Believer says the bible can't be taken literally and must be "interpreted" then again, the book isn't eternal: it's not the word of an eternal omniscient god. It has no more or less legitimacy than a Robert Frost poem. So you've just disproved the bible, which is the foundation of their religion. Congratulations.

the KISS principle applies very strongly here. Keep it simple.
Comment by Doug Reardon on July 6, 2010 at 11:02pm
First Premise: religion is a crock!
Comment by ZachsMind on July 9, 2010 at 5:08pm
there must be a way to make a flowchart that's airtight & covers any arguments Believers can throw at you. Some way to simplify all the arguments with slam dunk responses that don't allow for worming around and changing the topic & other overused cliches. I just wouldn't know where to start.

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