Comment by Kris Feenstra on March 14, 2013 at 3:48am

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a bit of fun who invites that treatment on themselves by being vociferously ignorant. It's only a problem if you start tracking people down just to troll.

Also, thing thing about trolling is that it is disingenuous behaviour. If you're expressing legitimate concerns or arguments, even with levity or while egging someone on a bit, you can cut yourself a bit of slack on the troll front.

Comment by Nate Lundgren on March 14, 2013 at 4:32am

I don't track anyone down. The only thing I do is respond to a few people on YouTube because they make a comment about something I said about a video etc. I don't let them get away with saying stupid shit about a genuinely constructed argument or comment. So many of them love to nitpick and focus on the stupidest shit and don't even usually address the actual argument or ideas that I have expressed.

That is usually when I start getting snarky and mocking their stupid petty non-sense. I suppose trolling is the wrong word to use for what I usually do. I just mock stupidity with derision sometimes. I prefer to have a civil conversation and hopefully help educate someone but there are just those people that refuse to use their brains constructively. They are pretty good at making up stupid shit though.

It is a just a bit of entertainment on my part to elucidate them with fearless and mocking statements about their "gods" that I'm supposed to be scared about. I think it may help a few people see that it is acceptable to talk trash about god, jesus or any other mythological people. That is my hope anyway.    

Comment by Kris Feenstra on March 14, 2013 at 4:34am

Trolling/ teasing on YouTube is like getting mud dirty. I think you're in the clear.

Comment by Jorita on March 14, 2013 at 2:14pm

Nat I do understand where you are comming from, for the past weak I have had to listen to adult christians listening to youtube videos such as , we came from bigfoot, UFO's the Illuminatie are satanists, that satanists whant to kill two thirds of the worlds population with Aids and war and then take over the world. Every code you see on a youtube video that has three 6 in the numbers is sataniostic and the list goes on. What is wors they think all of this is true as they have done their research. I decided to get some of my own tonight.  I read out loud to them Reg the Fronkey Farmers respons on "Jesus on Homosexuality, Respons to Heather" where he quotes all these biblical versus and compares it to his so called daily problems. Well the reaction I got, they found it insulting, this guy does not know the bible , nor how to interpret Leviticus, and that my mother should explain it to me. I was told that Jesus saved us and that those laws don't apply anymore because of Jesus. I then asked if they believe in just the new testament and was told they belief in the old and new. When I told them that Jesus said that you must uphold the old laws I was told that is just the ten comandments. I pointed out that he said Law not ten comandments. It ended with me being told that I read the bible in the wrong context. The point is I am super frustrated as I can not belief that people act so superior and tell me I no nothing. I don't find it fun to reason with them as their is no reason in their minds. I mean they belief Ametivile horror is based on facts. I think I am going nuts in this hous!!! Ps I can not spel and don't always use the correct grammar as I am not English. Hope you will forgive me LOL

Comment by Joshua D. on March 14, 2013 at 2:44pm

from a purely naturalistic standpoint morality is something that developed in us as social primates so there is no real objective standard for morality outside what is "best for the whole".

So if you have no problem with it and your not hurting society as a whole the feel free.

 

I would examine your motivations for doing so... are you trying to convince yourself for example. Introspection is vitally important to a sound mind.

Comment by Simon Paynton on March 14, 2013 at 4:21pm

Not healthy, not constructive, not intelligent.  Sorry. 

Comment by Strega on March 14, 2013 at 4:28pm

Kris - I loved that statement.  Getting mud dirty - brilliant.

Jorita - your English is excellent, I am sure we are all able to understand you :)

Nate - you're such a great guy, I'm really glad to be able to call you my friend.

Comment by Brian Daurelle on March 14, 2013 at 5:05pm

From one ex-Mormon to another, congradulations on your decision to let go of that dirty old iron rod! I can definitely relate to the urge to troll, pick fights, or just make conspicuously godless comments in places where they're sure to ruffle some feathers.  And it is undoubtedly satisfying in the moment, that little (well-deserved) feeling of superiority you get when you realize that the person you're arguing with doesn't understand even their own points as well as you do.  Sadly, however, this will all give way eventually to a kind of frustrating depression as you realize that your efforts have just made stubborn theists dig their heels in deeper, close their minds even more tightly against reason, and become even more distrustful of the godless.  Despite the fact that atheism is NOT equivalent to religion, as I have argued in many a web forum, the atheist who stands on the proverbial street corner shouting that there is no God will be taken no more seriously than the lunatic preaching about aliens, Armageddon or Allah.

The only way I've found to change peoples' minds, which is often less satisfying for being harder to observe, is just to exude a calm confidence in your own assurances; never be the one to initiate mud-slinging or ad hominem, never be lured into taking pot shots at someone's religions via comparisons or inconsistencies.  The only way to get a believer to take an atheistic worldview seriously is to show them by example that none of the neuroses which go into religious thoughts and behaviour are lurking behind atheism.  This means always adhering to rational arguements, allowing your own mistakes to be pointed out and corrected, and not calling undue attention to the flaws of believers. 

All that being said, you can still make some pretty devestating arguements within those parameters, which are that much more difficult to refute for their level-headedness and lack of personal invective. I have been reading Fawn Brodie's biography of Joseph Smith recently, and it's given me plenty of material to casually drop into coversation in a non-confrontational way; seeing people who have never questioned their church or its prophet suddenly do a double take on me, then an inward double take as they sort through implications (then, usually, decide I'm lying or mistaken) is far more rewarding than getting a WBC blogger riled up, because I can be pretty sure the seed of doubt or confusion is left in their minds, planted in a vulnerable moment so that it might grow into questioning or exploration of the actual nature and history of their belief.

Comment by Kris Feenstra on March 14, 2013 at 5:19pm

Sometimes it's just about catharsis though. 
Sometimes it's about not letting it be too easy to spew disingenuous arguments predicated on willful ignorance. 

Sometimes.

Comment by Kairan Nierde on March 14, 2013 at 6:45pm

Nate, as an ex-Catholic woman I understand how religion trains you to be self-effacing, repress "bad" emotions, desires, and reactions so that you're putting on a good face to "let the Light of the World shine through you." That is a very harmful way of living and surfacing from such a deep state of emotional repression is like going through adolescence again--all these new feelings and trying to figure out just how you should express yourself--it's challenging!  

I still have that urge to toy with the blindly religious posters on my facebook feed. Have to admit I sort of did so last week...this guy goes to facebook for input on how to write his sermons! It's just unbelievable how infantile his faith is and sad how a leader can be so dumb.  Hard to resist when he's soliciting advice...lol.  But I try not do it too often because I think teasing them is counter-productive to my personal goal of increasing tolerance of atheists by the general population. I know I'm not going to deconvert anyone by teasing them.  Defensiveness, embarrassment, and annoyance don't really open minds. Instead, I'm confirming the stereotype of "asshole atheist."

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