I appreciate all your comments. I want clear up a few things and there is no need to respond…unless you want to carry on a mature discussion other than…”I must be stupid or ignorant”. First let me say I have been educated…have a BS degree in Medical Microbiology and a masters in Theology. So…I have done my research…I stumbled on this website doing research and It was never my intention to ruffle feathers. But sense you have commented…I will too…It is my opinion that most atheist hide behind personal intellectualism. Your to smart to have faith. In other words…if it cannot be seen or explained it must not be true. As a scientist I see that what was true years ago doesn’t always apply to today scientific findings. So…science changes... unlike God. Would in be true to say we have a cure or vaccine for polio…yes therefore it must be true, but 100 years ago it was not. So the cure was untrue at that time... If we don’t have a cure for cancer does that make it not possible or untrue???…I hope not. I spend a lot of time and money with the local cancer foundation…so I must be throwing my money away if it not possible. Just because we cannot explain something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist…I know, I know what you going to say…”this is nothing we (atheist) have not discussed before”. But could millions of people be wrong about God. Could millions of people be deceived by ignorance or “voice in my head” that is like “Santa Clause”? We have non-biblical records that back up the scriptures…and by the way…the Bible was not written 2000 years ago by goat herders. It was 4000 years ago by, Shepard’s, Kings, Tax collectors, Prophets, fisherman…a diverse crowd with no discrepancies over a period of 2000 years with geography distances. What is the probability of that? What is the probability of all prophecies actually happening? The smartest person in existance could spend 100 life times studying God and they still would not have a complete understanding... so I dont expect you too either, because it requires "faith" which is what science cannot explain. In closing, I am not trying to get anyone of you to become Christians…my job as a disciple of Jesus is to tell people about Him and what He has done in my life. Its your choice what you do with that information. Colossians 2:8 warns me about science and being deceived so I will keep believing. . Sorry to bother your group and thanks for letting me in…even if it was for only 2 days.

Views: 2

Tags: argumentum ad populum, bible contradictions, ignorance, logical fallacy

Comment by Jānis Ķimsis on November 19, 2009 at 4:58pm
No discrepancies in the Bible? That's news to me. I still haven't found an explanation of the two incompatible creation stories in the very first chapter of the book.
Comment by a7 on November 19, 2009 at 5:40pm
I would vote to keep you holy ones all out, myt reasons are that its like hitting your head on a brickwall and I am sick and tired of it.

Take care

george
Comment by Prazzie on November 19, 2009 at 5:51pm
"First let me say I have been educated..."

Brian, I don't mean to ruffle YOUR feathers, but I look at the way you write and I have to wonder, where?

"a BS degree in Medical Microbiology and a masters in Theology" - Now that I can believe.
Comment by Andy on November 19, 2009 at 6:11pm
It seems to me that despite your degree which must give you an understanding of complex systems you insist on simplifying what is THE central set of tenets of your entire being.

Granted you may have a feeling of something greater and no doubt good, but that is only one element of the complex elements that make up your belief systems.

How you leap from this ‘feeling’ to the doctrines and dogma of Christianity is the more interesting, you were not born with a Christian faith, at some point you choose this faith over every other option available. Why?

Because it was the only product in the ‘Let us explain your inner spiritual feeling’ shop? Or because your parents, friends or community were already part of the club and you wanted to belong and be loved?

I don’t think it was because you have studied:-

1. All the other religions, their tenets and beliefs.
2. The history and origin of Christianity.
3. The real morality behind the actions and positions in the past and present of your church.
3. Or even it seems the real detail in the bible.

Would you accept a new theory on DNA replication outside the nucleus with such a shoddy approach to the background research?

Would you accept such a theory as gospel and never review it in the light of new evidence?

Probably not.

So why base something as fundamental as your very soul (is such exists) on such half done analysis?

I don’t know you, but:-

1. You may try to argue that your choice of Christianity is right only from a logical and analytical standpoint. If you have the stamina to stick it out, you will lose.
Or
2. You may try and say that the ‘feeling’ also tells me what religion I must follow and to ignore any contradictions that I might encounter. (Sophisticated faith argument). Harder to counter but I am game.

In any case I would suggest you hang around, I have no particular desire to cause you to loose your faith but I am very interested in how your faith came to be and what it is composed of.

Andy
Comment by Andy on November 19, 2009 at 6:32pm
George- If we don’t hit our heads against the wall in the hope that the occasional brick falls out to let the light shine through, in twenty years we will all be up against that same wall being shot for blasphemy.

Christianity is on the defence and it must be kept on the defence, if it ever gets the upper hand again we will be thrown into the second dark ages. All theist communities are just two generations away from the Taliban.

If one of their flock wanders into our fold we must pounce on it in the same way as they do if a new face enters one of their temples, though perhaps not as desperately.

The liberalisation of the church has absolutely nothing to do with theists it was hard fought inch by bloody inch with the tears and anguish of those who put truth above comfort, real hero’s of humanity.
Comment by Gaytor on November 19, 2009 at 6:49pm
You are welcome here, even if not from everyone. George is Scottish and not up for any disagreements or it's on your arse! :-)
So a Degree in Biology and Theology. I have the perfect question for you then. How do you reconcile a Bible that spends chapter after chapter laying out 66 generations from Adam to David to Jesus with Old Earth and Evolution?
Almost all of us come from religious families. We have heard your arguments our whole lives. I was six when I told my Sunday School teacher she was lying. 30 years of compiling evidence that supports that assertion leaves you with quite a hill to climb. If you feel the need to climb that hill Brian, you are welcome to try and convert me. You can find me on my page, we can do it here, privately, however. I've been nothing but welcoming and so the ball is your court.
Comment by Johnny on November 19, 2009 at 6:50pm
Why post a new blog? Why not just reply to your previous post?

"I have been educated…have a BS degree in Medical Microbiology" ... "Colossians 2:8 warns me about science and being deceived" - What contradiction... I seriously hope that you don't actually work in Medical Microbiology; cause I don't know much about the particulars, but I'm sure anything relating in anyway to biology bases information on the fact of evolution.

Seriously?! You're gonna pull out argumentum ad populum: "But could millions of people be wrong about God." If that's all it takes, explain why muslims or hindus aren't the right choice. For that matter, if you're only throwing out "millions", then there are millions of atheists world-wide -- so how could millions of us be wrong about deities?

"We have non-biblical records that back up the scriptures" -- Gen 6:15 ~ Show the logistics of fitting millions of species on a 450 foot boat; and keeping them alive for almost a year. Gen 7:9 ~ Show scientific evidence for the diverse species we see today stemming from a single pair; while we're there, show scientific evidence for a world-wide flood. Gen 11:1 ~ Show historical evidence for this. Exodus ~ Provide logistics and historical evidence for a column of 600,000 people leaving Egypt. Josh 10:13 ~ Provide scientific and historical evidence. 1Sam 2:8 ~ Provide scientific evidence. 1Kin 7:23 ~ Provide mathematical evidence. 2Kin 20:11 ~ Provide scientific and historical evidence. -- -- I'm only one-fifth of the way into the bible, and this is getting old... You get the idea...

"a diverse crowd with no discrepancies over a period of 2000 years with geography distances." First off, there are hundreds of discrepancies in the existing bible. Plus there's the fact that many of the stories are told twice because different versions were merged. Also you should really read some history about things like the Council of Nicaea where men decided which books to make part of the cannon, and which to discard. And the bible doesn't range over "geography distances" - it sticks to the middle east and northern africa.

"What is the probability of all prophecies actually happening?" All? Seriously? What about all these?
Comment by a7 on November 19, 2009 at 8:09pm
well said Johnny. as for banning the fundies. I would say there is millions of moderatesn out there who we do target, this group of belivers have more chance of seeing the error of their ways.

I usually do like to argue but not with the braindead, brainwashed and needy.


take care all

George
Comment by Doug Reardon on November 19, 2009 at 10:59pm
The irritatingly frustrating thing about delusion is that the person who has one is always absolutely convinced that it is 100% actual fact and nothing, absolutely nothing will dissuade them of that conviction.
Comment by Reggie on November 20, 2009 at 12:55am
It is always great when someone points out their education level before making an argument full of typos, grammatical errors, logical fallacies, and old fashioned uncritical thinking.

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