Comment by Cody Kirchner on August 26, 2011 at 5:28pm

   it was your doing, not ours. For you to be strong enough, independent enough, and self-aware enough to make a conscious decision to throw off the yoke of religion, which you felt was being cruel and oppressive to your sex, is something that screams for respect and equal treatment. I do not think it is possible to treat someone who has done something of that nature with anything less than the respect of equality at the very least. Thus, I believe the credit lies with you, not with atheist men. /Though perhaps some credit does go to the difference in culture or belief or whatever you wish to call it.

   You should not belittle your own actions by thanking us for doing something that is a basic tenet of being a human. It is mind boggling that anyone can treat someone differently, simply because they possess a vagina and the organs necessary to give birth.

   So, to give credit where credit is due, I respect the fact that you are proud enough of yourself to give up your religion, at least in part on the moral ground of gender.

Comment by Skycomet the Fallen Angel on August 26, 2011 at 6:10pm

Thank you Cody. Maybe it's a mark of how used I was to being treated inferior that it never even crossed my mind that I had done anything to deserve the credit of the respect you guys give me. I just found it very refreshing and decided that, more than ever, if I was to commit my life to a man, I deserved to find a man who respected me for who I am and didn't see me as a uterus with legs.

 

Cody, you showed once again just how awesome freethinker guys are. 

In reality, I only really became determined to get the respect due to me as a member of the human species after I had already left my religion.

 I was gifted with intelligence early in life. But you need more than intelligence to learn the truth about religion, you need curiousity... which I had an infinite amount of from the time I was very young. I had (from the time I was a child) felt compelled to ask a million questions and to try to know everything I could about ... well everything. This was what saved me from religion.

 

But... Here's a sad fact about religious women: Of all people, Christian and Muslim women are the ones who should most despise and reject religion. Many atheists have expressed astonishment at the strange fact that not only are outspoken atheist women a significant minority in the freethought community, but also, women are more likely than men to be religious. [statistics have shown this to be true]. But, many women and men do not possess my level of curiousity. Further.. as I have experienced myself (and seen in many discriminated groups... but especially women) it is not uncommon for a person who is stigmatized, humiliated, objectified, vilified, and scoffed at for her entire life to eventually lose hope and give in, believing that if she is treated badly, then she must somehow deserve to be treated badly. Too many women give in to the dehumanization and come to believe that they are indeed sinful seductresses and stupid creatures that need to be guided by a wise male hand so that they don't hurt themselves.

I didn't completely fall into the trap, but I did begin to feel the self-hatred that can come with being a woman in a religion that teaches you that you are more worthless than a pile of cow dung.

I still struggle with sexist crap in my community. Some men refuse to date me because I'm "too outspoken." Sometimes I run into a guy who will open doors for me [which is okay if I'm okay with it] but they sometimes try to open doors for me after I ask them not to and then pretend that they are respecting me when I feel embarrassed and powerless.

I still get unwanted sexual advances (such as butt-slapping) and when I turn red and yell at the guy to "cut it out! Don't touch me!" He and his buddies just laugh at me as if what I said were hillarious. There are still times when I have to put up with sexist jokes that I'm supposed to think are funny like "Why don't women need an umbrella? Because it doesn't rain between the kitchen and the bedroom."

But, to find men that respect me is a relief. And, if I am going to get romantically involved with anyone it would be someone who respects me. ^_^

Comment by Arcus on August 26, 2011 at 6:35pm

You are welcome.

Now where is my sandwich..? ;)

Comment by joshua james on August 26, 2011 at 6:43pm

LOL arcus. you ass!

Comment by Cody Kirchner on August 26, 2011 at 7:06pm

   Believe it or not, I know how you feel. As a religious child, (which I was up to the age of sixteen or so), I was told that I was blinded, literally not figuratively, because I had done something to anger god; or my parents had done something to anger god, results varied. Now, I was blinded at the age of two, by a cancer that caused the necessity of the removal of my eyes. It took me up until the age of twelve or so to realize how incredibly awful it is to think that god punishes a two year old, either for something he did, or something his parents did, by robbing him completely of his sight.

   Now, certainly, there are some differences between being a woman in a religion, and being blind. However, both are forced to deal with the stigma that is placed upon their positions; neither of which they chose or can control. Women are told they are inequal because they tempted adam into the original sin. Blind people, in some instances like mine, are told we are being punished for some act, thought, or deed that has angered god, even if we were infants at the time, or not even born yet in some instances. It requires a superhuman effort to resist the temptation to agree with those beliefs. It is much easier to give in and accept that you are evil and wicked, rather than to fight against it.

   Now, I don't have to deal with sexual advances, (well, to be fair, I do, but I don't mind them), I have to deal with automatic pity, being treated like I'm four when I'm in my early twenties, the absolute amazement that I have the ability to do things that are basic human functions. You would be amazed the things I have been asked, in all seriousness, how it is possible for me to perform. I've been asked how I do everything from eating, to dressing myself, to shaving, to having sex.

    Now, I don't mean to sound like I'm some angry blind person here, I understand that I'm different, and that means people will ask me questions, which I'm happy to answer. However, being blind doesn't mean I have no personality, interests, opinions or problems. There is more to me than just my blindness, just as there is more to women than curves and a vagina.

   As for the jokes you have to deal with, I personally don't find them funny. However, I've learned over the past two decades that if you don't bend a little to other people's humor, you spend all your time tilting against windmills. I used to be offended by every single blind joke ever told. If it was blind related, I was offended by it. But I eventually learned that I was getting offended because I chose to, not because I was actually being told anything offensive. "why don't blind people skydive? Cuz it scares the hell out of the dog", is not that offensive, unless you choose to make it so.

   So, I learned to relax. Whether you make that choice, is entirely up to you.

  I digress a little, but my basic point is, I know how you feel in some ways, and you have my deepest respect for being one of the very few who have been able to overcome it.

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