~~My best friend (as of now) is a fundamentalist baptist, although she just calls herself Christian. (We'll call her Jen) We tend to get into "discussions" about faith and religion, and so I thought I'd share some interesting points I, or she, has brought up.~~

 

This weekend I spent the night at Jen's house and for some reason we got on the topic of the bible. So, she got out her cute little pink bible full of girly quotes and well organized references and decided to look for direct answers to my questions. We were taken back to Genesis at one point and I stumbled upon the most obvious reasons that the story of creation could never make sense to anyone.

First of all, if god wanted Adem and Eve to have free will, then why did he punish them for gaining it?

 "Aha," the Christian would say, "They already had free will. Eve had the choice; eat of the tree and disobey God, or follow God's wishes and live in bliss."

However, Eve's decision to eat of the fruit cannot be looked on by anyone as having been the wrong choice. For starters, she did NOT have free will for she had no knowledge of good OR evil. The tree of life would give them knowledge of good and evil, and since they had not yet eaten of it, they did not posses those. That means she did not know good, for you cannot know good without knowing evil and vica versa.

At this point, Jen said something along the lines of "But Eve DID know good, she was surrounded by all she coulld ever want. How is that not good?"

Ah, yes, it IS good, but with all of Eve's needs being met, how could she recognize it as being good? As a human, she could sense that she was well and thriving, but she could only live with an indifferent mind. God did not tell her why not to eat the fruit other than that she would die. It did not tell her that to disobey god would be a bad thing, so all she had in front of her was the want to gain knowledge and the fear of death. There was no temptation, because to have temptation means to want something you know has consequences. Eve has not guilt and had no fear of god. Eve's want of knowledge overpowered her fear of death, nothing more. There was no sin in her choice to eat the fruit. There was no "sin" at all.

In the story of creation, the wisdom of right and wrong is seen as a bad thing, as if knowledge is a sin. However, isn't the wisdom of right and wrong something god wanted all humans to have? Either god is seriously confused, or it just likes to mess with people.

Jen said that knowledge of good and evil would make one like god, and that no one had the right to know what god knows. So I asked; "Do you know right and wrong?" "Yes." "Do you know what god knows?" "No." "Exactly."

 

So, I asked Jen why god didn't give them free will in the first place. I also wanted her to tell me why god would punish Eve for A. Choosing free will which god wanted her to have, and B. Making a choice that was neither right nor wrong.

Jen has to "get back to me on that one"

 

Views: 8

Comment by Kairan Nierde on July 27, 2011 at 1:59am

I think this is a pretty good argument.  Only one small thing to tweak: by your definition of temptation, her awareness of the consequence of death means she was able to experience temptation.

God did not tell her why not to eat the fruit other than that she would die. It did not tell her that to disobey god would be a bad thing, so all she had in front of her was the want to gain knowledge and the fear of death. There was no temptation, because to have temptation means to want something you know has consequences.

Comment by Michael Klein on July 27, 2011 at 10:19am

Preview for part II:

 

Melody getting stoned in a public ceremony

Comment by Melody A. Rogers on July 27, 2011 at 1:33pm

@Kairan

You're right, that is technically temptation, but I was focusing on right and wrong aspects of choices. My point is that while yes, she did have the consequence of death, she did not have guilt for disobeying and did not feel bad about eating the fruit.

@Michael...

What?

Comment by Nate on July 27, 2011 at 1:40pm

Great argument and point, I’m curious to see what she gets back to you with.  Thanks for sharing.

 

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