Comment by Dennis Smith on February 19, 2012 at 7:57am

Did you know, in relation to the article from the UK on secularization, both the House and the Senate maintain a full time, PAID Chaplain each. In both cases the Chaplain opens the sessions of the respective bodies with prayer and for both houses the Chaplains have been overwhelmingly Christian, in fact, I believe, exclusively. In each case they receive a full time salary in excess of $150,000 a year with one making $175,000.

http://chaplain.house.gov/chaplaincy/ChaplainHistoryCRS.pdf

So, while local government and school councils and boards are being told they cannot open with prayer and in many cases being challenged in courst based on it's Constitutionality, the Federal government continues to open sessions of the highest legislative bodies with prayer and even pay two Christian Chaplains.

Comment by John Siqueiros on February 19, 2012 at 10:52am

The article discussing the validity of the theory of non-overlapping magisteria (NOMA) (here) seems to miss an obvious point: there's a lot more to be said about the study of relevant stuff regarding humans besides science and the supernatural (e.g., gods). Someone should just pick up an ordinary college schedule: there's stuff like politics, economics, sociology, English, music, etc., that are neither science nor supernatural but quite worthy of study.

And in all of those study of the "arts" or "social sciences," smart people have come up with theories by which to try to objectively determine, for example, whether Keynesian economics or monetarism best describes how national economies work; whether a presidential or parliamentary system of governance works better; etc. So, it has already been established that one can study objectively various things out there in the universe without using scientific methods, without throwing up one's hands and proclaiming it beyond the realm of human understanding.

Comment by Gary Bergeron on February 19, 2012 at 12:23pm

So, while local government and school councils and boards are being told they cannot open with prayer and in many cases being challenged in courst based on it's Constitutionality, the Federal government continues to open sessions of the highest legislative bodies with prayer and even pay two Christian Chaplains.

Thanks for the info, Dennis! It's quite remarkable that these people do not realize that the prayers are not helping very much, with all the head-knocking going on, putting our economic standing in default...what the hell are they praying for?...confusion?..hardheadedness?...the will to persevere against all odds to go where the deep pockets want them to?

It would be so laughable, if it wasn't so shameful, that grown people, so-called "leaders" , daily ask guidance from Big Daddy to squabble amongst themselves and get nothing done. This IS prayer at work folks!

Thanks for the links, Nelson!

Comment by Dale Headley on February 19, 2012 at 5:29pm

   The article, "Creationism is already being taught there," only confirms what I've been saying for years: that the so-called controversy regarding replacing evolution with creationism in the public schools is a moot one; because evolution is NOT being taught in public schools and never has been.  I never was exposed to it from grade school through college, where I was a biology major; I only learned through independent study.  Even after I began teaching science, I was made aware that I was the ONLY science teacher in a district of 13 schools who taught evolution.  There were several reasons why the other science teachers were not teaching it.  Some refused to do so on the grounds of their personal religious beliefs ("Im talking about YOU, Dave"); some were afraid to teach it because of parental harassment; and still others didn't teach it because they didn't understand it themselves, since it had never been taught to them properly, if at all.  In my 36 years of teaching, I never once encountered another teacher, including science teachers, who understood evolution beyond the popular caricaturization of it as "monkeys turn into humans," which, of course, is not what the Theory of Evolution describes.  The average 4th grader in most non-third world countries understands evolution better than 95% of American adults.  Rampant ignorance in America goes on, unabated.

Comment by Helena on February 19, 2012 at 5:34pm

Wow... Dale Healy... to that I can hear the comment... only in America....

I was sent to a Christian private school, and evolution was certainly taught, as it was accepted science. Not one person questioned it in the class room, ever.

Comment by Michael on February 19, 2012 at 8:53pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9091007/Slaves-at-the-root-o...

While on the link "Christians much choose between their religion and obeying the law" on the Telegraph, this came up as well. I find it incredibly offensive, as someone with ancestors who, like Dawkins', owned slaves, to have something they have absolutely no control over to be used against them. He is very right to compare this with the Biblical idea that the "sins of the father shall be visited on the children until the third or fourth generation." On a par with original sin, this is an utterly despicable concept. The suggestion Dawkins should be forced to pay reparations for the crimes of his ancestors, or make his estate a museum on the evils of slavery, as mentioned in the article, show the dangerous conclusion it leads to. I, unlike Dawkins, lack even a meager inheritance from my slave-owning ancestors, but even if I did, we cannot help who we are related to, nor how our inheritance long ago was acquired. Punishing anyone for that is beyond the pale. 

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