Comment by Gary Bergeron on July 18, 2010 at 12:26pm

Thanks for the excellent service, Johnny and everyone have a Happy Sunday!

Comment by Keith Johnston on July 18, 2010 at 12:54pm

"Understanding atheism, the atheist strawman"
Its a waste of time trying to tell the evangelicals and fundamentalist this stuff. The may read it but none of it will go in. They will simply ignore it or most likely simply not understand a word. there is real evidence for this. and you can check it out here:http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
These people are incapable of rational critical thinking.
I think the only answer is to pass a law forcing all children into mainstream education. Faith schools should be banned.

Comment by kamana kapu on July 18, 2010 at 3:43pm

My objections to religion are based on the fact that religion is a lie and every lie is a cowardly act that ultimately serves to the detriment and distruction
of (Mother) Earth. It is important to note that the slavers who founded this country were inspired to include in their constitution two Iroquoian dictum that were reworded to suit the tastes of the slavers.

Whereas all have the right to speak freely and
truthfully, no one has the right to lie or be a
part of any lie; and,

Whereas all have the right to worship Spirit in
any way they choose, no one has the right to
impose their beliefs upon others or induce
others to believe as they do.

I firmly believe that atheists, agnostics, humanists, and others professing a similar bent should adopt the second axiom (above) as a core statement of their values, their beliefs, their creed.

Comment by Keith Johnston on July 18, 2010 at 4:37pm

Kamana kapu.
Though I agree with your statement that religion is a lie I could not agree any less with the rest of your comment.

First of all rights are an illusion. A word used by politicians to get votes. Try walking across a boarder, walking into a government building and speaking your mind or try filming on a main street in a big city.
You and nobody else has any "rights". As George Carlin said you have only privileges and they can be taken away anytime.
And Lies? Without lies human society would collapse.

Comment by kamana kapu on July 18, 2010 at 6:40pm

Your ignorance of your ignorance astonishes me!
Truths, as distinct from facts, are constants that have never had a beginning, will never have an end, and go on forever in every direction. One Plus One Equals Two (1 + 1 = 2) is a Truth that has never had a beginning, will never have an end, and is pertinent everywhere. And there are an infinite number of Truths as one can see by studying the language of Truth, mathematicas. Facts, by the way, are variables that, while also true, nontheless have a beginning, will have an end, and are limited and localized. Our universe is a fact while the space that surrounds it is a Truth for Space, like Spirit, never had a beginning, will never have an end, and goes on forever in every direction.

As for your comment that human society would collapse without lies that is only true with respect to male-oriented, patriarchal societies. And the reason that is so is that male-importance is the first and greatest lie this planet has ever known; it is the grandfather of all lies, the lie from which all other lies, directly or iudirectly, come from. There has never been a single human male who was ever needed by, or important to, this planet, this planets enviroment, or to any of the other living things on the planet; not Albert Einstein, not Neils Bohr, not Nikola Tesla, not any male, not at any time. And there never will be.

The first and most ancient question the human female ever asked of the human male (their sons) was “What do (I) woman need (you) men for?” The women asked their sons that all-important question because those sons tried to bully their mothers into being their slaves. What do women need we men for, Johnston? The only anwser the most treacherous, deceitful, cowardly, violent and murderous animal the human female has ever known can think of is: PROTECTION!!! Did you catch that one, Johnston! The women and children need we males for PROTECTION! The National Organization for Woman (NOW) strongly rebuts that lie and they have the statistics to back their case up.

DNA evidence now suggests that whereas the female mitochr-DNA goes back into infinity, the male DNA hardly goes back farther than their mothers. Further, geneticists have determined that the human female only began using the male sperm regularly to produce offspring some thirty-seven (37) million years ago. They were not able to trace the spermal path farther than that due to the lack of suitable technology. Nevertheless, the geneticists believe that the human female goes back more than a billion years (and possibly two).
These studies strongly support the ancient female folklore that for a very long, long time the human male could not, would not and did not survive into adulthood so that the human female were forced to use their own sperm to fertilize their eggs to reproduce themselves (see: parthenogenesis). Such a process, however, would simply produce clones of themselves and the women preferred to produce offspring that were genetically different to themselves to increase their chances of survival.

As for that Carlin guy, who’s he supposed

Comment by Keith Johnston on July 18, 2010 at 6:55pm

kamana kapu
"As for your comment that human society would collapse without lies that is only true with respect to male-oriented, patriarchal societies."
Thats simply not true. If you want to convince me of that you will have to prove it!
Lies are a vital part of human interaction. the help stabilize our relationships by constantly reducing the need for confrontation. LIes are told by everybody all the time. Women probably tell more snce they are better at relationships than men.
I am ignorant of nothing. You seem to have some kind of anti male chip on your shoulder.
Lets get back to the point huh?

Rights are an illusion.
Lies are necessary to the every nature of human relationship. Multiple studies in multiple countries, over many, many years have proven this time and again..

Carlin is a man who knew what truth was.

As for "female mitochr-DNA" I do not see what bearing that has on this discussion?

Comment by Keith Johnston on July 18, 2010 at 6:58pm

Kamana
doone just proved you lied to make a point!
How ironic

Comment by Keith Johnston on July 18, 2010 at 7:03pm

Also kamana
"I firmly believe that atheists, agnostics, humanists, and others professing a similar bent should adopt the second axiom (above) as a core statement of their values, their beliefs, their creed."
I don't since the only thing we really have in common is our non belief in God. You obviously have very different values and beliefs to me. I do not hate men for a start.

Comment by kamana kapu on July 18, 2010 at 10:53pm

(I may have messed up earlier so I am submitting this piece again).

Allow me to ask this question: what is this thing called ‘atheism’, anyway? I had the mistaken impression that atheism was a vehicle to counter the lie’s of religion with the (Spiritual) Truth. But now you claim that everybody lies and no society can survive without lies! I beg to differ! When the gun-totting european terroists invaded the eastern seaboard they were astonished to find that the natives never lied nor were they ever a part of any lie. And they were not the only ones. It was the same everywhere the white man went throughout the continent. The natives did not, would not, and could not lie because theirs were a female-oriented culture and women hate lie’s. Incidently, when the white man first arrived in Hawaii, they were also astonished to find that the hawaiian people never lied. And for the very same reason: ours were a female-oriented culture just as the continental natives were. I get the distinct impression from your missive that you not only believe that everyone has a right to lie but you believe it should be a constitutional right at that!

So you’ve got an awful lot to learn, Keith. And as for your assertion that I am biased against males the real truth is that I am biased against LIES! And the unfortunate truth is that the human males are born liars, bullys, cowards, theives, rapists, slavers, murderers and destroyers of all that is beautiful about this planet, that oil leak in the gulf being only one of the millions of distructive acts the human male has engendered in his futile and disctructive quest TO MAKE HIMSELF IMPORTANT!

Comment by Keith Johnston on July 19, 2010 at 4:03am

kaman
You are here posting about the wrongness of lies and yet your own post has one of the most ridiculous yarns I ever read!.
"And the unfortunate truth is that the human males are born liars, bullys, cowards, theives, rapists, slavers, murderers and destroyers of all that is beautiful about this planet,"
Thats a lie right there. Thats a massive over generalization which contradicts your earlier writing in the same post.

Sure some people lie in ways that cause damage and to manipulate, but not all lies are like that. Some lies are simply to prevent hurt feelings. Some open or smooth the path to communication, others save lives and so on and so fourth.
Case in point:
During the second world war this was fairly common:
Nazi soldier: "Are their Jews in this house?"
Civilian "No" (when in fact there were Jews hiding in the attic)

Nothing is so black and white.
If we tell the absolute truth to each other all the time there are going to be a lot of bruised ego's, hurt feelings, flashes of violence and so on. There are times when I have felt angry with somebody and when asked if I were, I lied and said no. This gave me time to calm down so that I could then rationally discuss what was bothering me. Was I wrong? I don't think so.

Also you said:
"I had the mistaken impression that atheism was a vehicle to counter the lie’s of religion with the (Spiritual) Truth"
Yes you are mistaken. You could not seriously believe that? Atheism is simply a lack of belief in God and nothing more. It is not a belief system nor is it an organisation to counter anything. For many of us this lack of belief is one of the few things we have in common. Though may atheists are actively engaged in attempting to counter religion, many also do not give it a second thought. And many fall (as I do) in somewhere in between the two extremes.

As for "the (Spiritual) truth" Personally I find the the idea of being spiritual as ludicrous as the idea of being filled with the spirit of God.

If you want to be part of an organisation that puts forward such religious thinking I suggest you form your own. Most Atheists I know would simply laugh at those ideas

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