State of Formation - An Experiment in Interfaith Dialogue Including Atheists

Dear All,

I thought members of the Unbelievable Community would be interested in State of Formation, an online forum for emerging religious and worldview leaders to discuss matters of ethics, faith, religion and morality in a respectful and collaborative way, supported by the Journal of Inter-Religious Dialogue. I'm a Humanist Contributing Scholar, and there are many atheists involved. Currently featured articles include musings on religious conversion, the worship of consumerism, and my article on the positive aspects of Humanism. Please visit, read what you like, and leave comments. Your support will help this venture succeed!

Best Wishes,


Views: 26

Comment by Kirk Holden on November 12, 2010 at 1:50pm
Thanks for the link - I liked it at a glance. My problem with the *supporters* of the New Atheists versus the actual written works and insightful talks by Dennett, Harris, Hitchens and especially, specifically, overwhelmingly Dawkins is that many, many of the posts in this forum for example are what Ken Wilbur calls preconventional or conventional at best. Ken Wilbur can be 100% full of shit on some topics but on this subject he nails it to the church door.

The preconventional stance - "Nobody including god can make me do something I don't want to!" is egocentric and in almost every case uninformed by, well you know picking up a book and reading it from front to back. Wilbur's "Theory of Everything" was fun and I broke my "contempt prior to investigation" stance just turning the pages (and writing outraged rebuttals in the margins because of my confirmation bias).

But like the Berkeley anti-Viet Nam war protesters who were for the most part middle class poseurs and NOT possessed by enlightened moral development in any conventional sense. The conversion from pre-conventional to conventional being attained by, you know, reading some books cover to cover.

The post-conventional attitude inspects (those idiot believers), reflects on (those idiot believers) and criticizes the norms of society (the online society of some idiot atheists) for the purpose of moving the ball down the field and, you know, reading some books cover to cover.

Let me be blunt - any atheists that hasn't read TWO of the works of the Four Horseman is an pre-conventional, atheist larvae who believes that we might be the immune system of a supernatural being. To quote Jon Stewart "Wow, have you ever thought about that - when your HIGH!?". These people are the ones that get won back to Jesus because they were won over by the ego and not conscious effort to understand the ground they claim to stand on.

I go to dinner with a group of free thinkers who for the most part do not read anything at all and do not care to, you know, read a book from cover to cover. For the most part they just don't want any god telling them what to do.


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