Slavery Is Fine as Long as It Gets People Closer to God!

So last night, I got into a very heated, very emotional debate with someone on Facebook.  In case you didn't know, that's what Facebook is for.  You get on there, you find some post that some friend has put up, and you troll the shit out of it.  That, obviously, is a joke, but it can sometimes be seen as truth.  I took screen captures of the conversation with the woman I was "debating," but in order to keep identities private, I will not post those screen caps, even though I feel her ignorant bigotry deserves no fucking respect.  I will, however, explain the topic of the post, an abridged version of the argument, and how I feel now, the day after this conversation has ended, and the woman deleted her posts.  Her deleting her posts makes me feel very victorious.  Honestly, I think it says a lot when you can actually make a fundamental, literal Bible interpreter remove their bullshit from a public forum.  My thoughts, however, will remain in full view, because I'm not ashamed of what the hell I believe in.

A close friend of mine posted a picture of a black preacher.  On the picture it states "Condemns homosexuality because the Bible condemns it.  Supports slavery because the Bible....wait a minute."

I found this picture to be quite funny, and very ironic.  I got a kick out of it.

My friend that posted the picture, whom I will call Mac, was then asked by one of his friends how the Bible supported slavery.  He found multiple verses within the Bible that supported slavery.  He found them in roughly five minutes.  It didn't take much research.  It was obvious from the defensive post from his friend, whom I will call Linda, that she was Christian.  She was wanting to defend her holy book.  Who can blame her, right?  I mean, it must be true.  It's in a book.

I added to the post by saying that the Bible did in fact condone slavery, and that Mac hadn't even listed all of the parts of the Bible that said so.  He listed only a few.  I believe maybe 7 or 8.  Regardless, I felt like he proved his point, and a couple of other people also felt the same way.  He's openly atheist, and he is always defending his thoughts.  I commend him.  Bravo, sir.

Now, to the good part.  I will post a little of what she said, just to give you an idea of what I was dealing with.

Linda: First of all, when the Bible mentions slavery in the Old Testament, it doesn't refer to "modern, civil war, southern slavery."  That is so far from the slavery they knew back when these verses were written.  Slaves were treated as normal members of the household...


It goes on, but that was the major point of her first geyser of bullshit.  I will continue with some more shit geysers.

Linda: Israelites were not supposed to be hanging around and becoming all "buddy buddy" with foreigners.  We can see why- when they do, they always end up worshiping false idols, becoming all prideful, causing wars and death, burning babies, etc. Hence, when you get a foreigner (I love that she said get a foreigner, like a foreigner is a new DVD or something), you need not let them just roam free in your land, or go wherever they want to go: they'll end up influencing Iraelites to become immoral and ungodly.  You'd think the Iraelites would be able to not be influenced.  Then what do we do with the foreigners? We need to make sure they're not able to influence society in such a way as to turn us from God.  We need to keep a close eye on them, and not let them do whatever they want.  OR-if they became a follower of God, that'd be even better.  So, how could we accomplish this?


Let me start by saying I can agree with one part of this.  I can understand being a bit suspicious of new, strange people being in your lands.  That doesn't mean you go snatch them up and make them do all of your work and force them into slavery.  Let's see what else "Linda" has to say.

Linda: Remember my first point that slavery was NOT owning people as if they were allowed to be beaten and mocked and ridiculed and starved and taken away from their families and such.  If they didn't perform their work, they were still fed and treated medically when needed and let sleep in good conditions;  they weren't sold off or traded except with other Hebrews (who would treat them nice as well).  They weren't beaten and if killed "oh well."  In fact, the foreigner becoming a slave was about the best thing you could do for them.

I've had just about enough of reading her filth again, so I'll just stop there and let you simmer on that for a while.  She is saying that it's ok to have slaves during that time because they weren't treated badly, as long as it was the Hebrews that owned the slaves.  Now, she also says that the Hebrews would then preach to them and convert them.  This way, they can't go back to their "pagan paths."  That's what she said.  I'm not kidding.  So....you can own slaves as long as you follow God, because you'll treat them well, and they won't be mistreated, even though it says in the Bible that you can do whatever you want with your slaves, aside from killing them.  At this point, all of my tact, kindness, and intelligence went out the window.

Here is my response:

Mark:  You just pointed out everything that makes Christianity closed-minded, ignorant, and completely bigoted.  Owning people is slavery.  Owning people is NOT.  I repeat.  NOT.  Fucking ok.  Not in any fucking universe.  You just backed up bigotry with more bigotry.  Sorry.  I no longer feel the need to be nice here.  I don't care how much you candy coat it or how much fluff you add, it's fucking slavery.  So get out of here with that bullshit.  It's amazing how much people will defend Christianity no matter how morally corrupt it is.  You make me sick for even trying to justify this.

She ended up coming back saying that her response was accidentally "copied and pasted," and that she didn't agree with the original writer of it.  I think she was full of shit, and she did write it.  I responded to that by saying it made her point of view even worse because it proved she couldn't even think of her own moral reason as to why slavery was bad.

My favorite response to it all was what I said next...

Mark:  Nope.  Done with this.  There's no hidden meaning in the Bible.  This isn't a Where's Waldo book.  It's not a Magic Eye poster.  I'm not going to stare at 2000 plus years of slavery, rape, and genocide and pretend that when I cross my eyes I can see a dolphin jumping over a rainbow.


She got pretty pissy next and tried to call me childish.  I'm sorry, I don't think flipping out on a bigot makes me childish.  I'm not the one that said slavery is cool.  She also said that one day maybe I would be humble enough to admit how insignificant what I think I know really is and search for the truth instead of acting like I already know it.

I do know the truth, you ignorant, hate filled thunder cunt.  Slavery is not acceptable!!!!  That's the fucking truth.  There is no way around it.  You cannot sit here, in our modern society, and say that just because the slaves were fed, clothed, and treated well, that it was ok to own other human beings and force them to work.  It's not up for debate.  It's not up for interpretation.  This isn't a Beatles song.  You can't take hidden meanings from it.  If the Bible says "Hey, Hebrews, own all the people you want, God said it's cool with him," then that is what it fucking means.  There's no other way to translate that.  None whatsoever.  It's bullshit that someone can actually think that way, try to research it, and then come back and throw a fit because I "Don't know the truth."

I do know the truth.  God is the most evil villain ever created in literary history.  He has caused the deaths of MILLIONS of people for thousands of years.  He has halted human advancement in nearly every aspect of Science or intellect.  I also know that people don't remember Hitler for any of the good things he did for Germany.  They remember that he killed millions of people.  They remember that he hated the Jews.  They remember that he tried to take over the world.  But for some fucking reason, an invisible, non-existent deity is ok to believe, no matter how vile, corrupt, or evil he may be, because it just so happens that a lot of people think that his book has a good fucking message in it.

It does not have a good message in it.  There may be some passages in it that proclaim that we should love each other, but hell, most people already knew that anyway.  They don't need poorly translated Ikea furniture instructions to tell them not to steal other people's belongings or to kill their fellow man.

I find it hard to believe that someone would even try to fight this.  Until I think about people like Mitt Romney, Bill O'Reilly, the Phelps family, the state of Utah (not all of it), a lot of the midwest, the southern states, and Rush Limbaugh.  I think about how these people influence ignorant people into becoming more ignorant.  It's almost admirable, the control these fucking bigoted jackasses have over people.  I hate all of them.  I mean that.  I hate them.  It's not this new world Atheist love your fellow man thing.  Fuck them.  We don't need those people at all.  They can go away.  I'm not wishing death upon them, but I will admit to this...I'll fucking smile when they die.

Views: 82

Tags: atheism, atheist, atheistrollcall, bigotry, religion, skeptic, slavery

Comment by matt.clerke on September 5, 2012 at 7:55pm

I'll fucking smile when they die.

That's a bit harsh imo.... although I certainly won't be shedding tears for any of them.

Comment by onyango makagutu on September 6, 2012 at 12:19am

I think your friend may own a bible but has never read any of it. We have from genesis Abe owning slaves, some he gets from Egypt from his pimping expeditions to the new testament where there are instructions on how to treat slaves! How ignorant can a person be in the face of such evidence from a book they claim is holy.

The bible was used in modern times to justify slavery, I mean if it was right by god, it must be ok!

Comment by Mark Hinton II on September 6, 2012 at 10:17am

Of course it's harsh, Matt.  I give the same respect I get.  None of those people, and the lady I spoke of in this post, give any respect, nor understand that there are people with differing views.  

Onyango, I firmly agree.  People use the bible on a daily basis to justify their actions, whether those actions are positive or negative, cruel or kind.

Comment by Unseen on September 6, 2012 at 11:06pm

As a matter of fact, slavery can be a mercy. In Greece, when they defeated an enemy and took a prisoner, they had a choice to make. They could kill him to end the threat, they could let him go and possibly see him again on another battlefield, or they could make him a slave. Apparently, they became family members, enjoyed quite a bit of freedom ("Take this gold, go to the market, and buy a big fish"), and formed bonds with the families.

I don't know about Biblical slavery, which may have involved putting slaves into hard labor until they dropped dead. And the Greek approach to slavery was certainly a far cry from kidnapping people, sailing them across the Atlantic, and treating them as beasts of burden. At least the Greeks recognized that their slaves were human beings.

Comment by James Cox on September 7, 2012 at 7:39am

The bible might be used to justify the most ugly of events or acts. Ah, 'Means To Ends' problem!

Do the means, justify the ends?

Comment by warofages on September 13, 2012 at 10:33am

@Unseen

sounds like you need to do more research, my friend :]

http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html

Comment by Unseen on September 13, 2012 at 3:49pm

@warofages

Point me to some actual biblical scholars (you know, people like secular university professors), not to some gung-ho pro-Christian site where the content appears to have been authored by Anonymous and "fact checked" by faculty of a couple so-called "Bible colleges."

Comment by Mark Hinton II on September 14, 2012 at 4:27pm

@warofages.  The link you posted is very close to the argument use by the person I talked about in this blog.  So thank you for pulling what a theist usually pulls during a debate like this.  Posting the same shit again.  Secular perspectives on slavery would more than likely, and hopefully, have a much more unbiased look at the subject as a whole.  Whether people sold themselves into slavery or not isn't the question.  The morality of slavery itself is what is in question.  Just because people can choose to go by heroin doesn't mean it's right.  Not the same thing, I know, but it's the same principle.  Making a conscious decision to do something that is morally wrong doesn't mean it's ok just because it's a conscious decision.

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