Comment by Whitney on June 29, 2009 at 9:20am

While I understand being respectful of the dead for the sake of those who are grieving, I do not see why someone who was rightly mocked or disliked during their lifetime suddenly becomes off limits just because they died; and really that person is only off limits if the majority don't necessarily agree the person was not worth respect. If it's going to be wrong to do that after they die why do we as a society consider it okay while they are living? I think people deserve to be treated nicely as a default position, but some people simply don't deserve respect in life or death due to their own actions.

Comment by Dan on June 29, 2009 at 9:23am

Bravo Whitney.

Comment by Gaytor on June 29, 2009 at 9:38am

Billy Mays openly was a caricature of himself. He made millions and make no mistake, he knew what he was. Check out a Pitchmen episode and he's pretty clear about it. He does some stuff for a radio station on Youtube too. I think I threw out the first shot at Billy. It's not that I don't respect him, the guy that was on Pitchmen would laugh at my comment.
I'm with Whitney, death invokes no new clause.

Comment by Dave G on June 29, 2009 at 10:09am

While I can see the importance of being considerate of those who are grieving, I too do not see death as instantly bestowing respect upon someone, just because they are dead.

I give respect to people, living or dead, as I feel they deserve. Everyone starts off with a default level of respect, just for being a sentient human being. That level of respect can then change, depending on their behavior. Just being dead does not alter that level of respect, although the manner of dying can adjust it.

As Voltaire said, "One owes respect to the living, to the dead one owes only truth."

And as a postscript, her name was Farrah Fawcett, not Sarah Fawcett.

Comment by Andres Kazan on June 29, 2009 at 10:12am

I'm not saying that being dead automatically places you off limits of criticism; don't get me wrong. I think we all deserve respect being alive, but we are subject to criticism no matter if we're alive or dead. When we're dead, there's no more "us" anymore, so you can't actually disrespect somebody who doesn't exist. Having said that, we should be clear if we're critizicing or mocking. Criticism is sane, and it's always desirable. If we do good, it's OK to be praised. If we do something considered as wrong, we deserve the corresponding punishment, even if it consists of just being frowned upon. Mockery, on the other hand, is insulting, which is quite different. Mockery can be completely undeserved.
The other thing I'd like to point out, is that the respect we deserve is different from social approval or dissent. I agree that a murderer or child abuser deserves jail time; that doesn't mean I'm not going to respect him/her as a citizen with the same rights that I have. Not because somebody commits a crime, for example, he/she can then be lynched in the streets by a mob. As a society, we understand he/she has done wrong, and has to go to jail, after a trial with a due process, if he/she's found guilty. But we still respect him/her enough to do that and not just kill him or beat him as soon as we can.

Comment by Andres Kazan on June 29, 2009 at 10:15am

Dave G: Spelling error fixed. Thanks for pointing it out!

Comment by Misty: Baytheist Living! on June 29, 2009 at 10:15am

I didn't find Dan's comments insulting, but then again, I'm not this guy's widow or family member. They might have. The chances of them lurking around TA? Well, I dunno. I guess my point is that it isn't a matter of how nice you have to be concerning a dead person, it's the company you're in and the respect for their potentially raw, still-mourning-feelings. The dead person doesn't care. He's dead.

As for the other comments... eh. Humor is one thing. It doesn't get a free pass, but I'm more likely to excuse something that makes me smile. Those comments weren't even entertaining.

Comment by Serotonin Wraith on June 29, 2009 at 10:27am

While views of people might not have to change just because they are dead, perhaps the views of the living do need to be adjusted in the first place. Making fun of someone or disliking them is one thing, wishing for their deaths and enjoying the fact they are dead is quite another.

With life as precious as it is - this being the only planet out of billions that we know even has it - seems to me the tolerance bar should be set pretty high before wanting someone dead. Celebrities that annoy us isn't exactly the same as mass murderers.

But this is the internet, and people say all kinds of things while not really thinking that way inside.

Comment by Misty: Baytheist Living! on June 29, 2009 at 10:32am

SW-
Pretty much spot on.. though I reserve the right to wish for and enjoy the death of Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson. I'd not go out and incite a mob to kill them... I'd not go out and list reasons for why they should die.. but when it happens, I'll smile a little inside.

Comment by Andres Kazan on June 29, 2009 at 10:35am

Well said, SW. I choose to blame the Internet, as well.

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