Comment by Reggie on November 20, 2009 at 11:07pm

Hey! Welcome to the site! Don't worry about missteps. It is a bit confusing at first, so no worries.

I can't really address your question, but I am sure someone will come along shortly with lists and graphs and what not. That seems to be the way it goes more often than not around here.

Comment by Reggie on November 20, 2009 at 11:09pm

And it is funny that I have already welcomed you! Oops! One can't be too welcomed, can they?

Comment by Gaytor on November 20, 2009 at 11:27pm

Mormon list.

Comment by B. on November 20, 2009 at 11:38pm

That's a bit extreme don't you think? Are you going to stop using things that were invented by Christians too? Reading books written by Christians? Watching movies & plays with Christian actors?

They're people with intellectual (and moral) flaws, but it doesn't automatically render all their other skills nonexistent.

This is really going to end up doing more damage to you than them, I would think.

Comment by Reggie on November 21, 2009 at 12:00am

Good point, B. But, consumers do get to choose. If that is what he wants, who are we to say how he should spend his money and who he should spend it with. I'd spend money with Christians well before I ever did with Wal-Mart. That's just me, though. And if he decided to read one book by a Christian...ehh, so what. I've bought a handful of items at Wal-Mart over the years. I still avoid it, though.

Comment by Mattress on November 21, 2009 at 12:10am

That is an interesting point B. I was not thinking that way. It is not the skills that they possess that I am talking about. I am trying to get an understanding of which businesses are a money maker for the various churches. I don't after all donate to churches and given the choice between supporting two businesses', one theist and one a free thinker, I would choose to support the free thinker.

Would you not like to support the people that are more morally, intellectually, and spiritually (or lack there of) in line with yourself??

This is awesome by the way. The different perspectives. Thank you for your comments and the welcome.

Comment by B. on November 21, 2009 at 12:27am

I just find it ironic that a person would take such self-alienating measures against religion, the shining example of how-to-exclude-others.

I don't think the Wal-mart argument is an accurate analogy: it rests on an unethical business practices, not necessarily the unethical beliefs/values/opinions of its owners/employees. What I'm saying is, a theistic-owned business that is not a theistic goods based business itself is still capable of providing a service or good untainted by the religious persuasion of its owner. Saying otherwise would cease to make one an atheist, as it would require belief in a supernatural disposition of an invisible, immeasurable God germ on all the product.

The entire idea is fundamentally irrational, because it serves no purpose. Does he think he will effectively punish theists for their belief system by withdrawing his business? Please. He's lucky if someone will notice. If anything he's looking for some imagined moral high-ground by digging himself into a pit.

Refusing to interact with Christians is just mirroring the behavior of the most loathed religious zealots. It's far more productive and beneficial to interact with people of all faiths on neutral ground without hostility. We have science & reason on our side, we'll win by default. In the meantime, relax! Enjoy your pizza or sweater or whatever made by a Christian/Jew/Muslim. You know what they say, hate the sin not the sinner right? ;)

Comment by B. on November 21, 2009 at 12:34am

*sorry I must have been typing my reply whilst you were typing yours

I support myself first, I generally don't think of others unless forced lol

I cannot prevent a theist from giving a tithe to his church, and at the end of it, I don't necessarily care. I think once money changes hands, it's his to do with as he pleases, and I cannot assume any right to dictate how he uses it.

I always have to give some of my money to the government and god knows they NEVER use it the way I want them to!

Comment by Reggie on November 21, 2009 at 12:36am

Well, well. Look at B making well thought out and well argued points. Makes it hard to disagree with you at all, really.

In fact, I do agree with you, but I think there is some value to what Mattress is saying. It is all relative, however. The Wal-Mart analogy should be tossed aside for the very reasons you say. But, if a business used religion in their business tactics and practices, then the analogy has some merit. If you can get the same service elsewhere without the religion, then why should we not? But then, if a good Christian family runs a bakery with out foisting religion on employees and customers, then they should not be "punished" by a withholding of business. Some kind of happy medium could be met that would not preclude one from anything Christian.

As Mattress said, always great to hear other perspectives.

Comment by B. on November 21, 2009 at 12:49am

Generally the only things that influence my choice of who and where to buy from are price, quality and proximity to my home. I feel like making decisions on intangible things like human thoughts & feelings is a slippery cyclic slope. We can always speculate who is most "deserving" of our business based on a number of factors that we hold valuable, but for all you know the atheist commits more wrongs by your own definitions than the theist (ie. maybe he's a child molester or a gang leader).

I don't feel we should judge product good or services by specific characteristics of their maker or provider, unless the characteristics define the quality of the good or service.
Whether or not someone believes in God won't prevent me from buying their bread, I just won't ask their opinion on anything that requires rational thought.

I can't reward someone for their intellect or opinion in incidences where it is not relevant.

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