Re-Blog: Believing in God is Not the Problem
I've long come to the conclusion that theistic belief is merely one symptom to a wider problem with humans. Chris Zerhusen at The Pile System blog has deduced the very same and has managed to articulate the point quite well, so I will let his words carry this post.
"As an atheist and skeptic, I am constantly fighting the battle (on a very small scale, but fighting nevertheless) against belief in all manner of silly things, gods included. It is important to remember, though, that belief in God, quack medicine and the Loch Ness Monster are all symptoms of a greater societal problem. Bad reasoning.
Bad reasoning is a very broad term and there are a very large number of factors contributing to the generally atrocious reasoning ability our society has. Some of these I think are worth faulting individuals for, some are probably more appropriately blamed on our education system. What is important about this is that the big picture here is not religion. It’s people being too intellectually lazy to care whether their ideas make sense or are supported by evidence. It’s people not knowing how to form a logical argument, or how to recognize an illogical one. It’s people not understanding the fallibility of our own minds, our own memory, and our own senses. It’s people not understanding the idea of falsifiability and testing a hypothesis. It’s people not knowing the very basics of what scientists have discovered about our universe. It’s people seeing a fraction and thinking “oh well I don’t need to understand that.”
These are the big problems. They affect people’s beliefs far more broadly than just their belief in religion. They are the cause of the success of countless quack medicines and perpetual energy machines. They are the reason we have people who believe Barack Obama was born in Kenya, or that we never went to the Moon. They are the reason that our political discussions are so often focused on vague, general and untested claims. I hate all of these things, and fixing them isn’t a question of arguing each point, it’s teaching people how to figure out for themselves that these ideas are stupid.
Before I get yelled at, I dont’ think it’s a bad thing to fight religion directly. Religion is a symptom, sometimes a terrible symptom, of the problems listed above, and I have no problem with people trying to relieve such symptoms. I think good will probably come from the raised profile of atheism and from convincing some people that their beliefs are unfounded and likely wrong. I even think that religion can be a good medium in which to discuss at least some of the problems listed above. But it’s not enough. A world full of Bill Maher’s is not that much better than a world full of Pope Benedict XVI’s. It’s a little better, but there’s still some work to do.
The natural question is, of course, how do we do this? I think a lot can be done by simply asking questions. The idea of falsifiability, logical fallacies and intellectual laziness can be directly fought simply by questioning people who make claims (even claims that are true). That’s what we can do every day on an individual basis, but I don’t think that is enough. Most people have no understanding of the scientific method when they graduate high school. I didn’t have a good understanding of the scientific method until after that. That needs to have a much larger emphasis in school than it does, rather than focusing on fitting in as many facts as possible. Facts are important to know, but they are disproportionately weighted in our current system thanks to our testing and teacher evaluation systems. All high schoolers should also be required to take statistics, calculus can wait.
The problem with making education reform suggestions is that it’s one thing to say “we need to teach the scientific method better,” and another thing to actually get that to happen. Teaching concepts and ways of thinking take a lot more work than teaching facts. It takes a lot more work from the teacher, and it takes an evaluation system that it different than our current one. These are broad scale reforms that will take a lot of time and a lot of work to implement, but it’s what needs to be done. I don’t think we can fight the rampant problems in thinking in our society without education reform. Just remember that it’s not what is taught that is important, it’s how it’s taught. That’s incredibly hard to change because it involves changes at the individual teacher level. Some of it could be achieved through changes in evaluation methods (a portfolio method like the IB does is one such option), but some of it involves better teacher training, and better incentives for teachers to care. There are still more difficulties, one being that we need LOTS of teachers, and it’s very hard to find that many people good at anything. Education is a terribly complicated field, but it’s important and worth trying to improve.
Remember that this is a complicated issue, and doesn’t have one, two or twenty-nine easy solutions. The real point is to see what the big picture is and decide what you want to do about it."
"As an atheist and skeptic, I am constantly fighting the battle (on a very small scale, but fighting nevertheless) against belief in all manner of silly things, gods included. It is important to remember, though, that belief in God, quack medicine and the Loch Ness Monster are all symptoms of a greater societal problem. Bad reasoning.
Bad reasoning is a very broad term and there are a very large number of factors contributing to the generally atrocious reasoning ability our society has. Some of these I think are worth faulting individuals for, some are probably more appropriately blamed on our education system. What is important about this is that the big picture here is not religion. It’s people being too intellectually lazy to care whether their ideas make sense or are supported by evidence. It’s people not knowing how to form a logical argument, or how to recognize an illogical one. It’s people not understanding the fallibility of our own minds, our own memory, and our own senses. It’s people not understanding the idea of falsifiability and testing a hypothesis. It’s people not knowing the very basics of what scientists have discovered about our universe. It’s people seeing a fraction and thinking “oh well I don’t need to understand that.”
These are the big problems. They affect people’s beliefs far more broadly than just their belief in religion. They are the cause of the success of countless quack medicines and perpetual energy machines. They are the reason we have people who believe Barack Obama was born in Kenya, or that we never went to the Moon. They are the reason that our political discussions are so often focused on vague, general and untested claims. I hate all of these things, and fixing them isn’t a question of arguing each point, it’s teaching people how to figure out for themselves that these ideas are stupid.
Before I get yelled at, I dont’ think it’s a bad thing to fight religion directly. Religion is a symptom, sometimes a terrible symptom, of the problems listed above, and I have no problem with people trying to relieve such symptoms. I think good will probably come from the raised profile of atheism and from convincing some people that their beliefs are unfounded and likely wrong. I even think that religion can be a good medium in which to discuss at least some of the problems listed above. But it’s not enough. A world full of Bill Maher’s is not that much better than a world full of Pope Benedict XVI’s. It’s a little better, but there’s still some work to do.
The natural question is, of course, how do we do this? I think a lot can be done by simply asking questions. The idea of falsifiability, logical fallacies and intellectual laziness can be directly fought simply by questioning people who make claims (even claims that are true). That’s what we can do every day on an individual basis, but I don’t think that is enough. Most people have no understanding of the scientific method when they graduate high school. I didn’t have a good understanding of the scientific method until after that. That needs to have a much larger emphasis in school than it does, rather than focusing on fitting in as many facts as possible. Facts are important to know, but they are disproportionately weighted in our current system thanks to our testing and teacher evaluation systems. All high schoolers should also be required to take statistics, calculus can wait.
The problem with making education reform suggestions is that it’s one thing to say “we need to teach the scientific method better,” and another thing to actually get that to happen. Teaching concepts and ways of thinking take a lot more work than teaching facts. It takes a lot more work from the teacher, and it takes an evaluation system that it different than our current one. These are broad scale reforms that will take a lot of time and a lot of work to implement, but it’s what needs to be done. I don’t think we can fight the rampant problems in thinking in our society without education reform. Just remember that it’s not what is taught that is important, it’s how it’s taught. That’s incredibly hard to change because it involves changes at the individual teacher level. Some of it could be achieved through changes in evaluation methods (a portfolio method like the IB does is one such option), but some of it involves better teacher training, and better incentives for teachers to care. There are still more difficulties, one being that we need LOTS of teachers, and it’s very hard to find that many people good at anything. Education is a terribly complicated field, but it’s important and worth trying to improve.
Remember that this is a complicated issue, and doesn’t have one, two or twenty-nine easy solutions. The real point is to see what the big picture is and decide what you want to do about it."
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Comment by Eric Strus on July 24, 2009 at 11:05am -
I couldn't agree more with these points. You will find myself, and most respected promoters of logic attacking far more than just religion. Superstition is the word i bring up most, and how i believe that it may be the most harmful things humans have ever known. as well, the issues in the educational system are plain as day, although it doesn't seem like people are doing all to much to fix it. Not to mention the promotion of creationism. In the end i do believe that the most important thing we can do is promote the use of logic and the scientific method. I would even go as far as to advertise a legal stance preventing adults from teaching/indoctrinating their children to not use reason, for that could be more damaging than many realize. This is not as far out as it sounds. We don't let parents beat their children physically; why would we let them beat their children mentally in a way that could harm them for life? No i'm not saying we should be against any form of free speech, but there are limits to what a person could say to whom. Could parents threaten children with their life? There is a similar tone between forms of mental abuse, although i think the abuse on a child's acceptance of logic is far more harmful than it is given credit to be.
thank you for sharing this delightful post, it really hits the point home when it comes to viewing the foundations of religion or other harmful superstitions.
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Comment by Reggie on July 24, 2009 at 11:22am -
I would even go as far as to advertise a legal stance preventing adults from teaching/indoctrinating their children to not use reason, for that could be more damaging than many realize. This is not as far out as it sounds.
Oh, I so agree with that. But I couldn't imagine a more uphill battle than that one. I'm not a lawyer, but my impression is that the laws in the United States offer limited rights to minors and they are basically treated like property of the legal guardians in the eyes of the law. If that is true, then that would be yet another hurdle to freeing young minds. Do we have any lawyers on the forum that could correct or confirm that?
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Comment by Dave G on July 24, 2009 at 12:54pm -
Pretty much, Michel. The right of parents to bring up their kids as they wish is strongly supported, so the only real way to ensure that all children are exposed to critical thinking and using reasoning skills would be to have it be taught in schools as a required part of the curriculum. And even that would be an uphill battle, with parents complaining that the school are teaching the children 'to be atheists'.
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Comment by Reggie on July 24, 2009 at 1:12pm
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That is the best way, Michel and Dave. I don't support infringing on parents' rights too far and teaching your children is too far. If I were banned from teaching my children to be critical thinkers, I would certainly see it as unjust.
Unfortunately most children aren't exposed to reason and rational thought in serious doses until they reach college. Many parents complain that their children come back questioning things, as if that should be bad! But primary education seems to be this mix of Sunday school and higher learning. I don't think kids are exposed to science and critical thinking near enough at that age. And if they were, it would draw ire from parents. It's one thing when 19 year old Suzie questions her family's religion and quite another when 9 year old Suzie does it.
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Comment by Dave G on July 24, 2009 at 1:22pm
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"It's one thing when 19 year old Suzie questions her family's religion and quite another when 9 year old Suzie does it."
And it doesn't even have to be questioning religion directly. Some parents will be upset just by their children learning that rainbows are made by light refracting through water droplets.
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Comment by Reggie on July 24, 2009 at 1:29pm
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Very true, Dave. I didn't mean to limit it to religion. It could be rainbows or sex education or gay rights or racial tolerance or... You get the idea.
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Comment by James on July 24, 2009 at 8:00pm -
I agree that theism is simply a symptom of a much broader issue. People simply don't know how to properly think for themselves or discern what's true and what isn't. All too often people base the value of 'truth' on what feels good or helpful to them. Sure this can make you feel good, but can also be dangerous. In my opinion, Carl Sagan's "The Demon Haunted World" is a must read for anyone wanting to think for themselves. n excellent book, by a man that is sadly gone far too soon.
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Comment by Reggie on July 24, 2009 at 10:33pm
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Sagan could have lived 300 years and it would have been too soon. :(
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