Prayer my ass
My stepson is a devout Catholic. It bothers him that I have an atheist website and a presence on several atheist forums. He has an account on my member forum, at AtheistExile.com, and follows the conversations there as a lurker instead of a participant.
He told me I should try prayer, just for a little while, to see if they come true or not.
I never approach my family members on the subject of religion but if they approach me about it, I don't hold back unless I see them closing their minds. This is what I told him (edited for posting) . . .
. . . Given the might and majesty of The Lord, I assume people don't trivialize their prayers. They pray for good and worthy things. But if those things are good and worthy AND God is mighty and majestic, why do we have to pray for them in the first place?
I mean, look at the perennially starving masses in Africa, where drought always seems to be a problem somewhere. Don't they pray for rain? Surely some of them are Christians!?! (Not that it should matter.) What about all the fat and happy Christians in the U.S.? Don't they pray for rain for the poor, starving, Africans?
Jesus (i.e. God in the flesh) said that we should live like the birds: they don't worry about food or shelter -- they just flit through life letting God provide for them. If that is what Jesus tell us to do, then why do we need to pray for the starving masses? Why do we need to remind God that he claimed to provide for our needs?
Yes, yes. I know. God works in mysterious ways. That's what we say whenever God does bad things. Don't you ever wonder why we say it so often?
You know, son, I was a Christian once. But I never fooled myself into thinking my prayers were ever answered.
He told me I should try prayer, just for a little while, to see if they come true or not.
I never approach my family members on the subject of religion but if they approach me about it, I don't hold back unless I see them closing their minds. This is what I told him (edited for posting) . . .
. . . Given the might and majesty of The Lord, I assume people don't trivialize their prayers. They pray for good and worthy things. But if those things are good and worthy AND God is mighty and majestic, why do we have to pray for them in the first place?
I mean, look at the perennially starving masses in Africa, where drought always seems to be a problem somewhere. Don't they pray for rain? Surely some of them are Christians!?! (Not that it should matter.) What about all the fat and happy Christians in the U.S.? Don't they pray for rain for the poor, starving, Africans?
Jesus (i.e. God in the flesh) said that we should live like the birds: they don't worry about food or shelter -- they just flit through life letting God provide for them. If that is what Jesus tell us to do, then why do we need to pray for the starving masses? Why do we need to remind God that he claimed to provide for our needs?
Yes, yes. I know. God works in mysterious ways. That's what we say whenever God does bad things. Don't you ever wonder why we say it so often?
You know, son, I was a Christian once. But I never fooled myself into thinking my prayers were ever answered.
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Comment by a7 on December 2, 2009 at 7:58pm -
what age is the lad ?
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Comment by Atheist Exile on December 2, 2009 at 9:00pm -
Hey a7,
He's 22 years old.
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Comment by Dave G on December 2, 2009 at 10:55pm -
Old enough to enter into a debate with his dad, then. What did have to say after that?
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Comment by Atheist Exile on December 2, 2009 at 11:56pm
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He said that he knows for a fact that God is real and working in his life. He said I should go to church with him.
There are so many things I could have said to that. He's no different that any other 22 year-old, raised in privilege, and sheltered from the real world. At his age, he hasn't yet realized there's so much he has to learn.
He's graduating college in March, yet is woefully ignorant of the sciences and humanities. I've only been here since he was 18 years old, and have pretty much focused on his 2 younger brothers (6 and 12 years younger), who are in more need of fathering. I figure he's approaching manhood anyway, so it's a bit late to influence him much.
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Comment by Frink on December 3, 2009 at 2:37am -
*clap*clap*clap*
"Knows for a fact." So much for faith, huh?
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Comment by Dave G on December 3, 2009 at 2:47am
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Knows for a fact? Did he cite evidence? If he's got proof, there's a Nobel Prize in it for him, for sure. :)
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Comment by a7 on December 3, 2009 at 7:36pm
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he is still a young man, you have a chance here to make a difference man, even at 22 he will strill need that older man father type person in his life.
take care man
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Comment by Atheist Exile on December 3, 2009 at 9:20pm
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That's what I mean, Frink,
He doesn't understand the difference between faith and truth. As I'm prone to say: "If you have faith, you don't NEED the truth". I can't tell him that yet. It will take time before he's ready.
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Comment by Atheist Exile on December 3, 2009 at 9:26pm
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Hi Dave,
We know how to know, unless we're conflicted somehow. We're older. He's still a young man. Idealism has gripped us all: it's a human prerequisite to true understanding. Shades of gray aren't discernible until you recognize black and white.
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Comment by Atheist Exile on December 4, 2009 at 5:01am
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@a7,
Actually, he's a pretty good kid. I was a drugged-up party animal at his age.
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