Comment by Wassabi on November 18, 2009 at 10:40am

Argument from ignorance, followed by an argument from subjective personal experience, ending with a subtle threat and fear mongering....

anything else?

Comment by brian on November 18, 2009 at 10:48am

provide factual proof of the ignorance...I've done some research. And i didnt intend it as a threat so forgive me for making you defensive. It was just a thought provoking question...If your interested in a good read...pick up a book written by Lee Strobel..."A case for Christ"...he is a former atheist and has an interesting back ground.

Comment by Wassabi on November 18, 2009 at 11:58am

you know what gets me with believers.... sentences like this one: "I find it difficult to comprehend that we have evolved from some primal ooze than a master"...

why? Why is that so hard to accept in light of mountains of evidence?

I mean, if god can do anything, why not accept that he's responsible for the big bang? why not state that god created evolution? why not say that "in his genius, he masterminded the complex machine of evolution and let it run its course…"

I thought God can do anything….

But you see, the problem isn't "god." The problem is with the specific personality you have attached to god.

The only reason you oppose the findings of modern science, is because they happen to disagree with the claims of YOUR PERSONAL GOD.

You accept science, critical thinking, and the scientific methodology whole heartedly whenever you go to the hospital, drive a car, use electronic devises, type on a computer.
But the moment that same thought process produces results that contradict your literal reading of the bible- you throw science out the window. That's just silly…

I can personally accept the possibility of something bigger than us. But Christianity? Judaism? Islam? They all got it wrong.

Comment by Matthew on November 18, 2009 at 12:04pm

Brian, your arguments are just as Yonny said.

I would provide proof of your ignorance, but it would be easier for you to pick up any good Biology text to show you just how well we understand evolution. I would also recommend Jerry Coyne's "Why Evolution is True," or Richard Dawkins' "The Greatest Show on Earth." But there are lots of other sources out there. Here's something a little easier to access. http://www.talkorigins.org/

Your "there is more unanswered question with evolution today that when Darwin originally theroized this concept" shows a fundamental lack of understanding of very basic science concepts. We have answered many questions that Darwin had, but like any good inquiry, one answer leads to many questions. So while you can say "there are more questions," that would be ignoring the fact that there are also mountains of answers. We understand evolution better than we ever have and learn more every single day. The new questions are about finer points, rather than larger concepts.

You say that "more evidence points to a creator today than before," but I'm not sure how in the world you come to this conclusion. As long as we are asking for evidence, why don't you provide some evidence for a creator? I've done lots of research and haven't found any. Ever. And don't even bother going with a "God of the gaps" argument, and I would abandon your it's-all-so-amazing arguenment as well. They won't work here. You'll need to provide some actual evidence, not arguments from incredulity.

And your last sentence is just an age old tool called "Pascal's Wager." It assumes one can choose to believe and that if there is a god, it isn't omniscient enough to know whether our belief is real or fake. And to say that you didn't mean to threaten us with hell when you said "where will you end up?" is just dishonest. You say it's thought provoking, but you are provoking thought by trying to frighten us with an eternity of suffering in a place we don't believe in.

I'll end it there and look forward to seeing the other replies you get. I think you'll find the people who hang out around here are quite intelligent and wonderful sources of information.

Comment by Dan on November 18, 2009 at 12:15pm

LOL Pascal's Wager tossed into the mix, funny

Why should we, as atheist, have to prove anything? We are not the ones trying to force a fairytale about an invisible mythical, all knowing being in the sky upon anyone who says they are not interested.

I have it many times, Show me Physical, scientific PROOF, that a god(yes a god, not just the one you insist on) and I will consider changing my ways.

BTW a 2000 year old book written by a group of wandering sheep herders is not considered proof.

And when are you theist going to learn that threats of damnation, hell, detroit, satan, etc, DO NOT PHASE US. It's like telling a 62 year old man that if he's bad Santa won't visit him this year, if one don't believe it it isn't a threat.

Oh, and welcome to think atheist.

Comment by Dan on November 18, 2009 at 12:17pm

Comment by Johnny on November 18, 2009 at 12:24pm

Show us "revelation all around us" that proves your deity to exist. Its not evidence for your deity when someone else would use the same evidence for their deity, and science can explain your evidence scientifically.

Your argument from ignorance starts with your lack of understanding of the natural world and biology. It may be hard for you to comprehend evolution because you've never actually examined it; but it has been and still is being proven everyday.

More argument from ignorance by illustrating your complete lack of understanding of the theory of evolution when you state "there is more unanswered question with evolution today that when Darwin originally theroized this concept" and "more evidence points to a creator today than before". Questions will always arise, and questions about evolution exist, but there are no questions that evolution is a fact. Contrary to what you imply, evidence for evolution grows stronger all the time; and amazingly Darwin's predictions from 150 years ago still hold-up. Despite Darwin spelling out the possible weaknesses and the exact ways to overturn his entire theory; evidence since has eliminated those weaknesses, and no one has presented the evidence to overturn his theory. The gaps for your deity that science has not filled yet grow smaller everyday, not larger.

Your personal experience means nothing to me (or us). I've heard them all before, and with credit given to a dozen other reasons, a handful of other deities, or a dozen different versions of your deity. Personal experience proves nothing. Just because you were lost and empty doesn't mean we are.

Your veiled threat is no threat at all to me. And really it just shows that you believe out of fear of hell as punishment for not believing. So apparently the church's threat of hell has worked to convince you.

Strobel is an apologist who is preaching to the choir. He is loose and manipulative with what he considers a historical fact; and his arguments are illogical from a skeptic's standpoint.

Comment by Scott A. Hunt on November 18, 2009 at 12:41pm

You found Christ??? Where was he? ...I suspect, all in your mind.

Comment by Aric on November 18, 2009 at 1:38pm

What is it that compels theists to come and post on here? Oh and by the way, we don't say that Christians have to prove there is a god. We say that Christians have to prove that there is a god if they expect us to take them seriously and not just treat them like people with an imaginary friend.

Comment by Corey Lord on November 18, 2009 at 1:48pm

Brian, what I find to be interesting is the need that you have to think there is more than just this life. Why did that make you feel empty? I am fine with the fact that I am here for a finite period of time and then I die and nothing else happens. Why is that so hard to swallow for believers? Why does there have to be more? Are they that conceded to think that there must be more because we humans are so special?

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