Comment by Mario Rodgers on September 29, 2010 at 6:26pm

@Radu thanks for your poem buddy. But in a discussion it is best to answer without ridicule. Ridicule gives the sense that you have no idea what to say, so you just point and laugh. I respect your opinions because you are human, I would appreciate you showing me that respect. Thank You

I'm sure you're aware of the term GIGO?

Comment by Trevauhn Grant on September 29, 2010 at 6:44pm

@Mario It's funny that the very notion to the world being round is actually in the bible. Job 26:10, Prov 8:27, Isaiah 40:22, Amos 9:6. The idea that the world was round came from the bible.

Until an impartial, scientific investigation is done by who. Who would be the impartial scientists? Naturalistic scientists who would do everything to disprove the supernatural? If you are not willing to even consider God as a viable option, what makes you think a greater educated scientist is going to consider it. Case and point: If you saw with your own eyes, would you become a Christian?

The problem is not the research. I can show you research upon research, but until you come into relationship with Jesus Christ, you're just not going to see what i'm talking about.

Comment by Trevauhn Grant on September 29, 2010 at 6:47pm

@Mario I'm not smug, I'm confident. I am confident in the Bible and the God I serve. I am confident in Jesus Christ. I am a big screw up, but Jesus makes me look good. No matter what you say. The bible says: I am fearfully and wonderfully made. :) that just puts a smile on my face.

Comment by Eoganacht on September 29, 2010 at 8:33pm

Why do we need faith? Saying we need food can be answered by stating the Law of Conservation of Energy and stating that the chemical energy in the food is needed by our cells to metablize and respriate. We can give evidence about what happens to a person without food and we can explain why this happens. We can explain this.
Can you?
What do we need faith in? Our schooling system? Our governments? Our leaders? Our researchers? Our doctors? Our families? Our friends? Ourselves?
Hammering Thor?
Please define what you are preaching. You said that you are a xian. What kind? Are you hinting that we need faith in an xian god? Which one? Mary, jesus, yahweh, holyghost, the other saints and any other angels?

Ladies and gentlemen, we need more information.

Comment by M on September 29, 2010 at 9:00pm

Faith in what? I really love a good cookie. I will have faith in cookies.

Comment by Mario Rodgers on September 29, 2010 at 9:13pm

The only food with REAL power is cheese! :D

Comment by Kris Feenstra on September 29, 2010 at 10:18pm

I saw some of the ruthless battles in the comments and I came to the solid conclusion: "no one knows what to believe."

Several people knew what they believe themselves. It just didn't work for everyone.

Comment by Bill on September 29, 2010 at 10:50pm

@Trevauhn, This idea that humans, left to their own abilities will fail is an old argument. However, we have succeeded in populating the entire planet without a trace of divine intervention. Show me where faith has solved anything? If you look at it carefully, you will realize that it is humans, left to their own wits and skills who have solved anything which has ever been solved at all.

Comment by James on September 29, 2010 at 11:30pm

Trevauhn, You state that our intellect and knowledge have gotten us nowhere. That we are still somehow lacking. I'm not aware of anything that may have been sparked in a different discussion, but I can comment on what I believe may be a central problem for you. You probably feel that just be cause we may not know the answer to something means that we are lacking or just guessing. However, that is very far from the case. OK, no one knows for sure how life initially started on Earth. We do have a few ideas that have a good bit of promise and we do know that evolution took over from there, but as of yet we don't know for sure what the answer is. Meanwhile, religions stand by and claim an answer that is not supported by any evidence. But isn't admitting that we don't know for certain yet the more intellectually honest answer? It certainty isn't claiming something as unwavering fact without the slightest shard of evidence.

In fact, if you're so sure in your beliefs. Allow the research to continue or even donate toward it. Science seeks the truth, no matter where the evidence leads. Some Christians like to think that there is some wide conspiracy against their religion, but it would actually be in a scientists interest if they proved Biblical creation as true. Anyone who could prove that would have instant fame and fortune, not to mention a Nobel Prize.

The problem is not the research. I can show you research upon research, but until you come into relationship with Jesus Christ, you're just not going to see what i'm talking about.

I'm surprised that people still use this argument because many of us belonged to a religion before we became Atheists. I myself was born to Catholic parents and for much of my youth was a true believer. Went to CCD, prayed, etc... I was as much a Catholic as anyone else at our church. However something was gradually happening. You see, I was always an academic in school and loved learning. But the more I learned, I started to have questions about my faith and the teachings. So I hit the Bible to find out where I was getting mixed up. I wanted to believe and felt that the problem was me, not the teachings. Trouble was, I did the worst thing I could have done if I wanted to preserve faith... I read the Bible, and not just the normal readings they give in church. What I found opened my eyes and showed me just how little I knew about what I thought I knew. Knowledge really is power. One simply has to not be afraid of a little leg work and the possibility that they may be wrong. I know I don't know everything, and that no one else does either. I simply choose to go wherever logic and the evidence lead me, no matter what.

Sex between a man and a woman is literally the giving of one's heart, soul, and body to the person you love. Sex was actually meant to connect two people, making them one. Hence, the husband and wife would have sex right after marriage to solidify their union.

In my opinion, sex is about love first and foremost. I make love to my wife because of the very special feeling we have for one another. I see no reason two members of the same sex can't share those same feelings and their own personal moment together. We're all the same deep down inside and share the same emotions. I don't feel a gay couple is any less human that my wife and I are. We just do it different.

I do thank you for bringing a mix of opinions to the site and hope this discourse will remain civil and intellectual.

Comment by Malcolm on September 30, 2010 at 9:52am

Sure atheists don't know the answer to everything, any more than Xians do. After all, last time I checked the Bible and Koran don't, for example, indicate whether the Riemann Hypothesis is true. One major difference between atheists and theists, though, is that we don't pretend to have all the answers, but instead we try to find them, not being satisfied with pat explanations that don't withstand even the slightest scrutiny.

But you'll find, if you ever outgrow your infantile beliefs, that you will have eliminated those nagging feelings of doubt and insecurity that dog you. No more worrying about whether you're going to hell when you masturbate, or have sex with your girlfriend, or fantasize about sucking another guy's cock. No more having to suppress your intellect's instinctive rejection of notions such as the idea that people come back from dead, can born from a virgin, or can be eaten in the form of a cracker, to say nothing of the idea that a being can be his own father. No more worrying about whether your God is who you think he is, or even if he exists. No more wondering what you did do deserve some misfortune that has befallen you. No more struggling to understand how an infinitely just and loving being could allow innocent children to suffer horribly.

Finally you'll be free from doubt, not because you vigorously suppressed any unpleasant thoughts, but because, even though you may not know the answer to life, the universe, and everything, you don't have a reason to fear the truth. And the truth shall set you free.

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