I want to thank everyone for their comments on my last post. I wish I could answer each one, but still unsure how everything works here.The main concern seems to be consciousness and whether it is local or non-local. Does the brain create consciousness or is consciousness a separate entity. In other word does the soul or spirit really exist.

Now near death experiences almost always begin with an out of body experience which if provable would show that brain and consciousness are indeed separate entities. Since NDEs are personal experiences, nothing wrong with personal experiences, it is almost impossible to apply any kind of science to the subject. However, if it could be determined that consciousness continued after the death or the brain and body then this would show evidence that near death experiences are real spiritual experiences.

Serious research on NDEs began some 40 years ago with researchers like Dr. Elisabeth Kubler-Ross, and Dr. Raymond Moody. Working in hospitals they became aware of patients that could recall events happening while they were clinically dead or unconscious. In the last 20 years the research has grown to include over a dozen universities, and dozens of researchers. The latest to write books revealing their research on the subject are Dr. Jeffery Long, author of "Evidence of the Afterlife," and Dr, Pim von Lommel,author of "Consciousness Beyond Life." This research has been peer-reviewed and published in Scientific Journals.

The research has gone from 150 subjects to well over a thousand, and the latest study will involve 1000+ hospitals that have agreed to assist in this research by putting signs, pictures, numbers up near the ceilings of their Operating Rooms, to see if coded patients will see them before resuscitation. The study is continuing now so no results are available yet. On a much smaller scale Dr. Charles T. Tart has conducted similar research by placing 5 digit numbers near the ceiling, and using a person known to have out of body experiences on a regular basis. After a few tries the person was able to see and recall the numbers while asleep on a bed below.

Then Robert Monroe who founded the Monroe Institute in West Virginia, is one of those people that had frequent out of body experiences. He wrote several books, and people go to the institute to sleep in isolation chambers in an attempt to have their own out of body experience. The last I heard they were around 70% successful.

I have about 100 links to this research, but will not post them all. I thought I might start with a link to a video by Dr. Bruce Grayson of Virginia University talking about his research before the United Nations.


Now while I am trying to show consciousness is non-local this does not prove the existence of God.

Views: 435

Comment by Lekatt on July 17, 2010 at 3:38pm
I'm sorry PJ I guess I didn't realize the the Wikipedia or The Good Atheist net were respected scientific organizations.

Dr. Bruce Grayson belongs to the International Association of Near Death Studies which have branches or groups in major cities around the world. These are not two-bit actors, they are respected scientists who know and follow scientific principles.
Comment by Kirk Holden on July 17, 2010 at 8:05pm
One cannot prove much of anything useful. You must put a conjecture forward and work to disprove it.

Anecdote: some people come out of a state of semi-consciousness with the conviction that they have glimpsed the infinite.

1. Available myth (which may be true) - these people went to the other side.
2. alternative Conjecture: These people suffered from oxygen deprivation.

Which one of these two can you refute with evidence?

You cannot prove the myth because it is irrefutable on the face of it. "2+2 = hot cross buns" is not refutable because it is malformed in every respect. It is not necessarily wrong (or right of logical or the best move) but it is clearly irrefutable and solves no problem. Is does not break your leg or pick your pocket.

You may refute "oxygen deprivation" with ease (that would surprise some serious and thoughtful people - you should bend your pick on this program). -OR- you may not.

This conjecture *pending falsification* is still not "100% true" or proved beyond a reasonable doubt. This conjecture is FOREVER awaiting falsification. There are two kinds of theories:

1. useful theories but proven untrue (Newtonian Cosmology)
2. useful theories that are awaiting falsification.

Don't stop believing, hold on to that feeling. (baby)
Comment by Esther Rhymes on July 18, 2010 at 4:50pm
i saw this in the discovery magazine.
Comment by Wesley on July 18, 2010 at 10:03pm
I want to see the proof for reading 5 digits on the wall from an out of body experience. To my knowledge this has never been done under controlled scientific conditions.
Comment by Pope Beanie on April 6, 2017 at 9:45pm
I agree, the 5-digit claim can't fly without a sourced reference.
Comment by Not Important on April 7, 2017 at 10:03am
I don't think it does atheism any good to have such dubious claims floating around.


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