Comment by Eric Youngstrom on May 4, 2011 at 8:56pm

I don’t think in matters of win or lose in a debate, an argument yes but not a debate. In the end sound logic and reason trump all. They (religious, christian, ect..) can talk about their god and personal relationships with said deity until they are blue in the face. In doesn’t change the fact that they side with faith and that is their failure.

 

Faith; The unsubstantiated self-justification for the unwillingness to educate oneself about opinions which do not directly mirror, or are incompatible with, those of the individual.

Comment by Wendy R. Dragon on May 4, 2011 at 9:12pm

I would have laughed at him from the start. He said "bacteria turned to fish, fish turned to something that walked on land, which turned into like a squirrel to a monkey to a human...lol I'll stick with intelligent design." Soooooo. He's okay that it happened, but not that his invisible friend does not appear to have had a hand in the process. Right there he has agreed to the evolution story (albiet he obviously doesn't understand it) ... AND has violated Occam's Razor... (which states that if you have two models that explain the data equally well, the simpler one is the best choice).  Since the basic difference between evolution and ID  is the presence of god in the process, ID is the more (and unnecessarily) complex model... You can argue this point with little personal knowledge about individual ID arguments.  Honestly, though, if you choose to engage these folks, do it for your own amusement,  to hone your debate skills, or to motivate you to learn more about the arguments on both sides. (I have spent days walking through convoluted cosmological and philosophical arguments, because someone mentioned them. I love doing this, but then I'm weird). Don't do it because you think they are reasonable people who will be swayed by evidence or logic. You will never change their minds... especially someone like this who is so proud of their complete ignoance of science and their demonization of scientists.

Comment by Tom Heatherly on May 4, 2011 at 11:10pm

We sure are stubborn, even science must wait for the old crowd to die off so new ideas can come to the forefront.  If religion wasn't such an easy control over folks, it would be waning.

Comment by Dustin on May 4, 2011 at 11:37pm

You already won the debate when they started their first words ... basically they say 'I am ignorant to reality and I am denying something that is substantially proven by most of the scientific community' ... if they are that deluded , there is no help for them.  

 

You won.  Congratulations.  It doesn't matter if they realize they lost or not.  Just be happy that you won.  

 

 

Comment by Brandon Cure on May 4, 2011 at 11:51pm

As many of you have stated either I won or there really is no win, I felt the same way. Like I said I haven't really debated anyone since becoming an atheist. I just thought I would throw myself into it and see how my own arguments stood up rather than trying to change his mind. Plus his first post really got under my skin and I couldn't resist saying something. Thanks for the advice! I really appreciate it.

Comment by Wendy R. Dragon on May 5, 2011 at 7:17am

I think you did very well, and not just because it was your first time. You pointed out the special pleading that all relgious folk eventually get around to making, used facts to support your opinion (though he didn't seem to notice) and kept your cool (something many of us forget to do). Congratulations! Arguing with a theist seems to be a milestone for many of us atheists. I know it was for me.

 

Comment by Mo Trauen on May 5, 2011 at 10:12am

I forgot to add that any time you realize you are talking to a creationist the admonition to walk away applies with even greater strength.  If you have a couple of well-honed bon mots to throw in, great, but remember that creationists are a combination of extremely ignorant and emotionally disturbed.

Comment by Teresa Turner on May 5, 2011 at 11:46am

I didn't read the whole thing because I need to leave for class in a few minutes, but from what I did read I have a few corrections to make: first, we didn't evolve FROM apes, we evolved from a common ancestor as apes. Looks like this --> common ancestor --> one branch: human ancestors -->another branch from common ancestor into ape-y ancestors.
Another: there was material that caused the big bang. It was incredibly dense and the particles collided much like the idea of the large hadron collider , causing a huuuuuuuuuuuuge explosion, thus the big bang. Now, I don't know where the material that caused the big bang came from, and no one else does. I don't expect to ever know where it came from, but I'm not going to use the god complex to fill in the blank spaces. I've already accepted the fact that there are a few things I will never ever know in my life time.
If you want to bring up the fact that we have physical proof that the earth is more than 6000 years old, bring up rocks and fossils and such. And also say how we're (atheists) are not all arrogant in thinking the entire universe was made for us when we are one tiny little rock orbiting one tiny little star in one tiny little galaxy amongst an innumerable number of galaxies and dark matter.

Comment by William C. Walker on May 5, 2011 at 5:00pm

Brandon, NO ONE wins an argument. In a discussion, you can frequently 'make a point'. That's about it.  You might ask your friend if he's read much Greek & Roman history. Especially the history of the ORIGIN of Xianity. Emperor Constantine is the REAL founder & FUNDER of Catholicism / Xianity. In 325 CE he convened a council, at Nicaea. He felt that he needed a new god under which he hoped to unite his decaying empire. He directed the council & had a bunch of ignorant men decide on one - by VOTE. All that could not 'buy into' the majority was expelled. He directed the council to : Make it to astonish. All of this didn't save his empire, but he did create a new religion. One of the world's 'biggies'.    Religion is mostly a matter of geography. Ask your friend what he thinks his beliefs would be had he been born in the Middle East, to Muslim parents.

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