Comment by Apple on March 8, 2010 at 10:34am

This is why rational though/critical thinking are important. It doesn't matter if the stories are good or bad if they are all fiction, right? Without a shred of evidence to back up their christian claims it honestly doesn't matter what they say about chocolate.

Comment by Shine on March 8, 2010 at 11:06am

I agree that liberal Christianity can certainly be appealing; on the surface, it seems to have all the happy fuzzy parts of Catholicism without the overwhelming burden of guilt and shame. (I am a "recovering Catholic, as well. ;) ) However, liberal Christianity is still ultimately based upon promoting faith as a supreme virtue and elevating ignorance over knowledge.

In the end, it's all just candy being used to lure you into the van; once inside, religion will always intellectually molest you. Liberal Christianity just uses better candy than Catholicism.

Comment by Brad on March 8, 2010 at 3:37pm

Well, as a teenager, while I was still figuring out my beliefs, I was probably as hardcore 'anti-theist' or whatever you wanna call it, as it gets. The older I get and the more I try to expand my 'horizons' and think along 'multicultural' lines, the more I have tried to find the good parts or qualities of even groups I had strong aversions to. As such, and especially after reading the "Jefferson Bible", I admit I can strongly admire much about the Biblical Jesus. The extreme charity that many today could use (UNDERSTATEMENT x 100). That said, I don't even think the mere idea of a higher power is what I find so unbelievable, in and of itself. But, it's the fact that most people, as you touched on, are 'imprinted' with cultural bias in regards to 'god' or religion. Even if such a being exists, neither the Christians, Muslims, Hindus, et etc etc would 'know' what he, she, it or whatever wants. People who claim otherwise do not base this on evidence, but their own subjective cultural indoctrination that would differ if they grew up in a different country. Basically, it's mass delusion.

There comes a serious gray area with 'tolerance' at this point. Especially when the 'dominant' religion's 'traditionalists' have had SUCH a negative history on things like supporting slavery, opposing women's rights, etc etc etc, and today are really no better about questioning clergy and MEN of the cloth.

Truthfully, also i think way too much of the religion is about repressing human nature, so a LARGE part of me agrees with people like Nietzsche and LaVey and their philosophies on things like sexuality, self interest (not selfishness) and anger.

Comment by Todd on March 8, 2010 at 10:12pm

After suffering through a horrid religious upbringing, I have a very strong dislike for christianity which even extends to the more fluffy liberal variants. I do not find even the slightest temptation toward liberal christianity, but I have found myself attracted toward wicca and neo-paganism for many of the same reasons that you describe here.

Generally, I like wiccans. They tend to be much more accepting and tolerant than even liberal christians. Being gay in a group of neo-pagans barely even gets noticed. In addition, there is a decent amount of cross over with the goth and vampire subcultures along with sexual subcultures such as BDSM. I like the variety and I'm a huge horror fan, so I generally fit in well there.

The problem is that I also have a strong interest in the study of religion. Learning too much about christianity is what caused me to stop believing in it. With wicca, I learned too much to ever believe it in the first place. I have studied much of the history of the occult, and found only ridiculous claims made by grandiose people with no evidence to support them.

Of course, a physics background probably doesn't help much in the faith department either. No matter how many times someone tries to convince me of the healing power of a crystal, all I can see is a big pretty rock.

Historical accuracy and evidence matter to me. Although I like the culture, being a believer requires a level of muddleheadedness that I will never be able to embrace.

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