My "Guardian Angel... that I never knew I had!" My theist sister protects me against persecution.... thanks sis! ;)
Another "eruption" between me and my brother today. (... *rolls eyes*) He's 17 and going through "that phase" where you're "radical" about your most treasured beliefs (or unbeliefs). I went through that once... so I know he'll come out of it soon. Still... his intolerance does hurt sometimes. The entire "rest" of my family is Christians... except for a couple of Jews far out in my extended family. I don't think there are any brights in my family.... although I might be wrong... because I still don't know ALL of my extended family. Within my nuclear family, my brother appears to be the closest theist to a zealot. He did tell me outright that "he can accept any other 'religious' belief system... as long as they believe in God. But he "can't" accept atheists... because they don't believe in God." (I'm unsure if he understood that he was basically telling me that he hated me and how much this would actually hurt me.) I just have to keep reminding myself that he's going through that "radical phase" and that most sane, normal people come out of it eventually. So, about today's "eruption," I'll tell you the basics... some of them VERY surprising!
Brother (to protect his identity, I'll never use his name!) was in a bad mood already when he came up to copy some sheet music on our multi-purpose printer. A piece of the printer (that detaches) fell off the printer and behind the desk.) I was on the computer... goofing off and oblivious (apparently) to the stormy mood he was in. So I innocently and calmly (but maybe not politely-enough) asked him if he was going to pick up what had fallen behind the desk. Suddenly, he yelled something at me. (I don't remember what it was, maybe I was in too much shock at his sudden rage to remember clearly.) My mom asked "what's going on up there?" And he gave a response that shocked me even more! He told her that I was the one screaming at him, or something like that. I was stunned. I probably should have taken this part of the episode as a warning, but... of course... my head was too thick to understand the mood he was in. I was on youtube watching "Atheist church" (with headphones on so that what I was watching wouldn't upset my theist family, who for obvious reasons wouldn't find the videos funny). (I was trying to be courteous.) I started explaining to Brother how the "subscription" application on youtube works... and I happened to mention that I had subscribed to the videos of the guy that I was watching currently. So that's when he glanced at the screen and saw the words "Atheist Church" written on top of the video. (To my surprise it was enough to send him into a tirade!). O.o He started yelling something about how I shouldn't be allowed to watch a video of an atheist making fun of Christians because it was insulting and blasephemous (or something like that). I calmly told him that I knew he wouldn't find the content funny and that it might upset him and that was why I was using headphones so that no one could hear it but me and not sharing the video with him. (Apparently that wasn't enough for him). He took one look at the video's title and said "That guy should be shot!" (I knew he wasn't serious... just saying angry words... but that was enough to get me irritated.) So I replied, "Actually this poor guy DID get some very serious DEATH THREATS from crazy people and he had to contact the police about it but he took it like a good sport and actually JOKED about it on a video!" Brother apparently wasn't listening to me... (at least I don't think so). He went into a rant about how any religious person was better than an atheist... because at least THEY accept God! (Knowing he wasn't listening, I didn't bother to correct him that not all religions believe in what he would consider to be "God.") I just sat there, stunned, while he continued his rant. When he told me I shouldn't be allowed to watch stuff like that, I replied "It's a free country [name ommited], which means that I can watch ANYTHING I WANT as long as it doesn't interfere with your rights." I asked my mother (who was downstairs and barely paying attention) to back me up in the fact that his attempt at censorship WAS wrong. (She just made a weak response about how... "well it was offensive to her as well that I engaged in jokes about their religion." She didn't condone or correct my brother's behavior.) ... Thankfully, I was soon surprised to learn that I had a "guardian angel" (so to speak) who would protect my rights in the house. It was, and who would have guessed, my theist sister! O.o!!!! I can't express enough how grateful I am to her for stepping in to defend me against Brother!!! She first said, "I think you should both learn to be more tolerant of eachother." (I agreed wholeheartedly with her on this... more tolerance is an admirable goal for anyone to strive for! :) ) But Brother snapped at her then. She suddenly became my shield and protector. She became furious and yelled back... "At least she's more tolerant than you!" (I tried to tell her that I appreciated her trying to protect me... but she should just ignore Brother because he was just going through a phase and he would mature... eventually.) She was so angry she didn't seem to hear me... and neither did Brother. I didn't hear much of what they yelled at eachother but I did hear him yell at her... "GO READ THE BIBLE!!! DON'T CRITIZE MY CHRISTIANITY BEFORE YOU READ THE BIBLE!!" (Oh yeah... I remember why he yelled that! He yelled that at her when she tried to tell him... "You know... the Bible isn't LITERALLY true-" Anyhow! Kudos to you my sister!!! :) (*Raises glass in a toast to her!*) I never knew you had it in ya', but I'm really impressed that you are willing to protect the oppressed, even if they share different views than you!!!
This should go to show any atheist on this forum that there ARE theists out there who wish to protect our rights! Unfortunately, they are silenced and shunned by the louder ones who want to remove all our rights. I feel sorry for the "Guardian Angel" theists but I respect them! They are often accused of being traitors and the like and they put themselves in danger to protect us! Bless them all!
Brother (to protect his identity, I'll never use his name!) was in a bad mood already when he came up to copy some sheet music on our multi-purpose printer. A piece of the printer (that detaches) fell off the printer and behind the desk.) I was on the computer... goofing off and oblivious (apparently) to the stormy mood he was in. So I innocently and calmly (but maybe not politely-enough) asked him if he was going to pick up what had fallen behind the desk. Suddenly, he yelled something at me. (I don't remember what it was, maybe I was in too much shock at his sudden rage to remember clearly.) My mom asked "what's going on up there?" And he gave a response that shocked me even more! He told her that I was the one screaming at him, or something like that. I was stunned. I probably should have taken this part of the episode as a warning, but... of course... my head was too thick to understand the mood he was in. I was on youtube watching "Atheist church" (with headphones on so that what I was watching wouldn't upset my theist family, who for obvious reasons wouldn't find the videos funny). (I was trying to be courteous.) I started explaining to Brother how the "subscription" application on youtube works... and I happened to mention that I had subscribed to the videos of the guy that I was watching currently. So that's when he glanced at the screen and saw the words "Atheist Church" written on top of the video. (To my surprise it was enough to send him into a tirade!). O.o He started yelling something about how I shouldn't be allowed to watch a video of an atheist making fun of Christians because it was insulting and blasephemous (or something like that). I calmly told him that I knew he wouldn't find the content funny and that it might upset him and that was why I was using headphones so that no one could hear it but me and not sharing the video with him. (Apparently that wasn't enough for him). He took one look at the video's title and said "That guy should be shot!" (I knew he wasn't serious... just saying angry words... but that was enough to get me irritated.) So I replied, "Actually this poor guy DID get some very serious DEATH THREATS from crazy people and he had to contact the police about it but he took it like a good sport and actually JOKED about it on a video!" Brother apparently wasn't listening to me... (at least I don't think so). He went into a rant about how any religious person was better than an atheist... because at least THEY accept God! (Knowing he wasn't listening, I didn't bother to correct him that not all religions believe in what he would consider to be "God.") I just sat there, stunned, while he continued his rant. When he told me I shouldn't be allowed to watch stuff like that, I replied "It's a free country [name ommited], which means that I can watch ANYTHING I WANT as long as it doesn't interfere with your rights." I asked my mother (who was downstairs and barely paying attention) to back me up in the fact that his attempt at censorship WAS wrong. (She just made a weak response about how... "well it was offensive to her as well that I engaged in jokes about their religion." She didn't condone or correct my brother's behavior.) ... Thankfully, I was soon surprised to learn that I had a "guardian angel" (so to speak) who would protect my rights in the house. It was, and who would have guessed, my theist sister! O.o!!!! I can't express enough how grateful I am to her for stepping in to defend me against Brother!!! She first said, "I think you should both learn to be more tolerant of eachother." (I agreed wholeheartedly with her on this... more tolerance is an admirable goal for anyone to strive for! :) ) But Brother snapped at her then. She suddenly became my shield and protector. She became furious and yelled back... "At least she's more tolerant than you!" (I tried to tell her that I appreciated her trying to protect me... but she should just ignore Brother because he was just going through a phase and he would mature... eventually.) She was so angry she didn't seem to hear me... and neither did Brother. I didn't hear much of what they yelled at eachother but I did hear him yell at her... "GO READ THE BIBLE!!! DON'T CRITIZE MY CHRISTIANITY BEFORE YOU READ THE BIBLE!!" (Oh yeah... I remember why he yelled that! He yelled that at her when she tried to tell him... "You know... the Bible isn't LITERALLY true-" Anyhow! Kudos to you my sister!!! :) (*Raises glass in a toast to her!*) I never knew you had it in ya', but I'm really impressed that you are willing to protect the oppressed, even if they share different views than you!!!
This should go to show any atheist on this forum that there ARE theists out there who wish to protect our rights! Unfortunately, they are silenced and shunned by the louder ones who want to remove all our rights. I feel sorry for the "Guardian Angel" theists but I respect them! They are often accused of being traitors and the like and they put themselves in danger to protect us! Bless them all!
Views: 8
Tags: Atheist Discrimination, Atheist Haters, Guardian Angel Theist, My sister, Personal Stories, Theist Protects me
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Comment by Misty: Baytheist Living! on June 13, 2009 at 4:41pm -
I'm so sorry you have to deal with an assy 17 year old in your house, especially a zealot one. Maybe a calm discussion with your mother to let her know you are taking steps to protect her easy-to-offend nature, (like the use of the headphones) are a way of showing you respect her beliefs, but his threats of violence and outbursts are really not productive to family harmony and if he doesn't see the need to act like an adult, you might stop being so respectful yourself.. so unless she wants a full blown war in her home, maybe a little fairness and tolerance ought to be taught?
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Comment by Serotonin Wraith on June 13, 2009 at 7:20pm -
I'd ask him why he isn't being more forgiving, like Jesus would have wanted. If he's read the Bible I'm sure he knows he should turn the other cheek in these situations.
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Comment by James on June 13, 2009 at 10:19pm -
Sounds like a tough situation. Talking to him sounds like it would get you nowhere. Even if you do know the Bible better than him or point out how he's not following Jesus' teachings.
As for your mom. I would definitely approach her. But don't elude to the possibility of an all out 'war'. I fear the possibility that she (as a theist herself) could interpret that as a threat. Tell her how you are trying your best to keep the peace, but he's the one looking to be offended. Yet you don't completely hold it against him, as he is going through 'that phase', and just ask that she help keep the peace until he grows out of that over-reacting nature.
As for your sis. Kudos to her!! :D It's always good when you find theists with a level head. And also refreshing that she at least doesn't believe in the 100% literal truth of the bible. Is it at all possible she may have had her own secret doubts at some point?
Regardless, I'm sorry you have to live in a situation like this. My brother (and rest of my family) are christian as well. However, I waited until I was 22 to come out about my Atheism so I never really got any grief over it. They try not to bring the subject up though, since it has long been conceded that I know more of the bible than the rest of my family and can easily counter them with their own book and my academic knowledge. :) Anyway, good luck!
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Comment by Skycomet the Fallen Angel on June 14, 2009 at 12:07pm -
Thank you ALL sooo much for your support. :D! I appreciate it a lot. As for talking to my bro... you're right James, that WOULD get me nowhere fast. (Once he gets mad... he shuts his ears and just starts yelling.) My sis - I don't know whether she has had any doubts about her faith....*musing*... if she has, she is VERY good at hiding them. She never asked any questions that I know of... however... she did recognize Brother's intolerance and said something like "it sickens me!" I do find it interesting now that you mention her possibly becoming disillusioned... She has become more distant from most of my family in general and more angry at times. Anyhow... it's hard to tell. If she is losing faith... like many ppl brought up as theists... she seems initially to be keeping quiet about it.
As for Bro - grrr... well I'm still angry at him. He had a concert yesterday where he was performing on the piano. (My dad later told me that he was acting like an ass because he was "stressed out about his concert.") Regardless.... I still don't think that's an excuse for his behavior. Yesterday I was fuming at him and when I went to his concert, I had half a mind to walk out... but I didn't. I examined my motives and discovered that I was just trying to make him feel the pain he had made me feel and that it was useless and wrong to do something like that. As a humanist... I still believe that "2 wrongs don't make a right." So, I stuck it out... and maintained the moral high ground. Still... I haven't yet forgiven him.
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Comment by Cara Coleen on June 14, 2009 at 9:19pm -
Well, here's my take on your sis... she's probably having doubts. The fact that she said "the Bible isn't literally true" is a pretty big red flag to me. Once those little allowances creep in, a person begins to wonder why they should take ANY of it seriously... and the fact that your brother is acting like a spaz while you're keeping your cool (not to mention, being tolerant of everyone else's militant intolerance) is going to make her wonder who really has it right.
She's probably keeping it on the down-low because she doesn't want to become a target, too. I let my brother take the brunt of my family's chastising for a long time. It wasn't a conscious decision, but he's always been "the black sheep". I've been the good one for so long that I didn't know how to step into the same role with him. It's scary! I've never met with their disapproval before! I finally did tell my mom that I didn't believe, but the words seemed to roll off her like water on a duck's back.
Anyway... I don't want to give you false hope, but I feel pretty sure your sis will "see the light", especially as she observes the difference between you and your brother's behavior.
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Comment by Skycomet the Fallen Angel on June 15, 2009 at 6:59pm
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Thanks... she shows no signs of being a closeted atheist, yet, but she definitely shows signs of being more religiously "liberal" than Brother. Brother... isn't a fundie... but he's as close as you can get to a zealot without being a fundie. *sigh* I talked to my therapist today and my mom "interrogated me" about what I said to him. All I said to her at first was that I talked to him about the "issue that's causing me the most anxiety right now." (That wasn't good enough for her). (She can be nosy... but it's not really her fault b/c her whole family is that way). So she said she wanted to know what that "issue" was and I said I wouldn't tell her b/c we had spoke of it in the past and she hadn't understood then, so she wouldn't understand now. But she then said something like "I have a 'right' to know what's bothering you!" So... I gave in and told her that I was talking to my therapist about this blow-up on Saturday and how I felt like only my sis had supported me. Well... as I predicted... she didn't handle my criticism of her inaction on Saturday well and stubbornly refused to believe she had done "anything wrong" in refusing to back me up. Also... she told me today that she thinks that "Your brother's right... atheism is wrong." So I asked her if she ment "incorrect" or "morally wrong." No surprise... she said "morally wrong." (I just felt like shaking my head in disgust at this point.) So I challenged her: "Mom statistics from 2005 revealed that 2/3 of the world is non-christian [she had said what she did in a way that indicated that she thought not just atheists but "non-believers" were morally wrong}. So I ask you... do you think that 66% of the world is morally wrong?!!!" Of course... she had nothing to argue back with this and just stopped listening to me. (Why did she make me tell her my issue from Saturday? What a BLOODY waste of time!!! grrr...)
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Comment by Cara Coleen on June 15, 2009 at 9:35pm
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I'm sooo frustrated FOR you!!! It's maddening how they (our moms) just do NOT get it. I have so many feelings and thoughts about what you're going through that I can't even put 'em all into words. Hang in there though.
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Comment by AnonyMouse on June 30, 2009 at 10:40pm -
WOOOO! You are absolutely unbelievably lucky to have a sibling who will stick up for you. You are also lucky to have a family who loves you and will put up with your atheism, even if they don't agree with it (brother potentially accepted). I could go into another drawn-out rant about my family members, but suffice it to say that only my ex-Christian relatives know about my atheism. (We're kind of an "ex-Christian underground," keeping the truth of our beliefs carefully hidden from our overzealous parents.)
Definitely keep an eye on your sister. Though I very much doubt that she's a closeted atheist, she's very likely been having doubts about her religion. At some point she may want to talk about it with someone who isn't going to give her the same hackneyed responses. Be that someone, and you may be able to convince her of your standpoint.
On a completely unrelated note, is your avatar meant to be symbolic?
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Comment by Skycomet the Fallen Angel on August 10, 2009 at 11:58pm
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Yeah... sort of... It's the anime character "Karin" from the show "Karin." It's a rather rare anime... you can find it sometimes on youtube... but I'm so obsessed with this supernatural comedy that I've been buying the expensive DVDs off Amazon myself. I'll post a video from one of my favorite Karin episodes in my videos and give you a link to it... tell me what you think! :) http://www.thinkatheist.com/video/karin-episode-7-english-being
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