I am a little worked up right now. I just viewed a segment on CBS Sunday Morning about a Catholic hopital in Phoenix, Arizona involved in the termination of a pregnancy by a mother of four. Apparently the woman developed severe complications and was facing heart failure and imminent death. The chief surgeon of the hospital decided to save her life and performed the abortion after consent from the staff ethics board headed by a sister nun. The board approved the procedure and the woman's life was spared. Subsequently an investigation ensued by the Catholic higher ups (Bishops, etc) and it was determined that equal consideration was not given to the fetus. The sister nun was excommunicated and the hospital (St. Joseph's) lost their catholic standing as ordered. Upon further review the nun has been re-instated but until the hospital states that it will never do this again they cannot regain their catholic hospital status. They refuse.

I talked to my mother about the issue, who is dead set against any and all abortion, and she was NOT sympathetic to the woman facing death! My socks are completely blown off! I asked her if it really made more sense for a woman and fetus to both die than ensuring at least the woman would survive. Would her senseless death have pleased her god? She says his ways are not always clear. It is extremely disturbing for me that someone's good judgement and sense can be so totally skewed in the wrong way. I had to prematurely end our conversation as my mind was reeling from her incredible lack of compassion for the mother.

Religions continues to operate illogical mind control over it's followers. My Mom is one of it's victims it's seems. 

Views: 181

Comment by Danny Sanchez on December 4, 2011 at 10:04am

That Crap works me up too Ed.

Comment by Steff on December 4, 2011 at 10:27am
These oh-so-good christians obviously didn't think about the well being of the mothers others children our the rest of her family. They would have been screwed without the mom but with the newborn.
Strange way of thinking. If letting both, mother and child, die instead is their answer - I wonder if they take any medications at all cause clearly god never told them to. They should ask themselves if they would decide the same way if it was happening in their own family.
Comment by Doug Reardon on December 4, 2011 at 8:19pm

For us heathens, death is the end, but for believers, death is just the start of a glorious afterlife!

Comment by Arcus on December 5, 2011 at 6:32am

I actually disagree here, though I will have to base it on an assumption. If the patient herself is anti-abortion, to the level of your mother, which I presume since she was treated at a Catholic hospital, then the abortion should not have been conducted despite the very probable fatal outcome.

Opinions are reflected in real world choices with real world consequences. Bad opinions make for bad choices with bad outcomes - and I don't support saving people from their own idiocy.

Comment by Ed on December 5, 2011 at 9:07am

@ Arcus

So what would you as the husband and father have told their children after the unnecessary death of their mom?

Would your logic also prevent intervention in the case of a suicide attempt? 

Comment by Arcus on December 5, 2011 at 10:12am


Does not sound like a me-problem. People die unnecessary and meaningless deaths due to their own stupidity every day, and I would prefer not to have a nanny state overriding personal choice, even if those choices are bad. I personally see it as natural selection by other means.

Suicide usually stems from psychological issues, such as depression, which is curable. Those who wish to commit it should therefore receive medical and/or psychological help as they are unable to take care of themselves. It's completely different from a sincerely held belief that one would rather die than have an abortion. If you are talking about shortening end-of-life for the terminally ill or incurable diseased I have no issues in granting them the right, ability, and aid in controlling their destiny.

Comment by Steff on December 5, 2011 at 4:52pm

I agree with Arcus on behalf of the abortion, if it would have been done against the mothers wishes then there should be consequences for the hospital. But this doesn't seem to be the case here, else the media and the church people would have exploited the matter for sure.

I disagree on the suicide matter however, but that is a different discussion.

Comment by Kairan Nierde on December 5, 2011 at 8:22pm

After reading this story some months ago, I've been wondering if the people at my local hospital would allow me to die if I needed treatment that would harm my fetus.  It's really not something a woman should have to consider.  But, our area is dominated by catholic hospitals.  They refuse to administer birth control while you're inpatient (even if need it for hormone regulation, rather than as a contraceptive), so I know the standard of care is already being compromised by their so-called "ethics."  I haven't looked into the Hospital's policy on whether or not the fetus's right to life trumps the mother 's right to life.  As someone uninterested in reproducing, hopefully this all remains theoretical for me.  Meanwhile, for the women in my community who rely on our hostpitals for care while they're in their reproductive years...

Comment by Ed on December 5, 2011 at 11:41pm

@ Arcus

"Does not sound like a me-problem. People die unnecessary and meaningless deaths due to their own stupidity every day, and I would prefer not to have a nanny state overriding personal choice, even if those choices are bad. I personally see it as natural selection by other means."

You still didn't answer my question about what Dad tells the kids happened to Mom. Is he going to tell then Mom was just stupid. 

Perhaps you misunderstood the original post. The woman wanted the abortion after receiving revelation to her almost certain death. The hospital obliged. 

How could a doctor work at a facility where ethics trumps the Oath of Hippocrates?

Comment by Arcus on December 6, 2011 at 12:13pm


It is not up to me what a dad will say about why the mother of his children chose death by opinion over life. I guess he could go one of two ways, either commending her for sticking to her guns or berating her for being selfish.

If the woman wanted the abortion the my point is moot. My assumption was that she was ardently "pro-life" (a bit of an oxymoron in the situation) and the doctors needed to bypass it via the ethics committee. If she was pro-choice all along then it certainly poses no issue on her side, but is quite telling about the idiocy of having religiously/ideologically affiliated health care.

Doctors are humans too, with all the fallibilities which come with that particular condition...


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