Comment by Nelson on October 26, 2009 at 3:09pm

so your argument is "the sun and the moon, therefore god?"
sigh.
look up the Anthropic Principle and get educated.
in addition, first of all, you can't say that we wouldn't have evolved to be here if the Moon hadn't been formed. we may have still even without the Moon. not only may we have but we may have far sooner than we did because the moon was formed when a Mars-sized planet slammed into the young Earth during the formation of Solar System. the impact turned the cooling Earth back into a raging sea of molten rock necessitating another several hundred million years for the Earth to cool once more. second, the Sun isn't at a "perfect distance" from Earth; the Earth's orbit around the Sun is slightly elliptical and consequently our distance from the Sun varies slightly throughout the year. moreover, just as there exists climate variation on Earth now, if we were a bit closer or further from the Sun there would still be climate variation on Earth. no doubt as long as the Earth was within a certain window there'd be plenty of places for humans to exist on Earth.
finally, you're being a human chauvinist. human beings evolved on this planet because of the environment and because of random chance. in running the whole history of earth back and doing it over again with the very same conditions there's little reason to think that we'd be just the same much less here at all. if the moon wasn't around and/or if we were closer or further from the sun there's still the chance that another organism would have evolved to intelligence and end up seeing the earth's distance from the sun as "perfect" from their perspective! it's only pure pride, arrogance, and ignorance that makes you think that human beings are special. we exist because of the way things are; the way things are don't exist for us any more than the way things might be, if they had been different, would have existed for any other intelligent beings that might have evolved under those conditions.

Comment by Brad on October 26, 2009 at 4:16pm

I agree with Nelson. The only caveat is, this argument "sun + moon = god" demonstrates a gross misunderstanding of advanced mathematical concepts like Statistics and Random Distributions.

If there is a god, why are there BILLIONS of inhospitable planets? If we were "designed" or "helped along" by the divine in "his" image, why are we only able to survive in such a small percentage of the Universe that it might as well be written 0%. 1 Rock, in billions of galaxies, each themselves containing billions of solar systems. Your argument proves God an incompetent and uninterested entity.

Keep in mind, your argument states a "god" created the whole universe, but then upon seeing the whole thing, focussed in on one insignificant rock, and took (13.7 billion yrs [age of universe] - 3.8 billion yrs [age of single celled life]) 9.9 billion years to develop 1 rock to conditions which gave way to life, while ignoring the destruction and entropy of the very Universe he created? So detail oriented to "create" intelligence, but too clumsy or careless to figure a way to stave off an eternal and completely annihilating freeze?

I wouldn't want this guy to build my house, let alone "worship" him ;).

Comment by dr howard davis on October 26, 2009 at 7:09pm

Hi Brad!
In my question it indicates it is for those that are fully aware of all that the moon does for this planet and all that live on it. And if it were to 'leave' what would happen.I asked for moon focus -not a lecture from you on 'Diety' and your disdain relative to that subject.
Of course,you agree with Nelson!

If you want me to display ADDHD then I will circumvent my question and go into your reply.But,thanks for answering as I know it takes time to reply.It was good of you.Best,
Howard

Comment by Reggie on October 26, 2009 at 7:56pm

Hahahahaha.


Sorry, I had to get that out of my system. My good doctor, could you cut to the chase and be out with what you are all about? Is it purely religion? Is it some mysticism disguised as religion in phony baloney science speak? Astrology? Crystals? Where is this going, my good sir? Surely you lead us down a path for some nefarious purpose or another. Quit pissing on our pant leg and telling us that angels are shedding tears on us. Be honest about your desire to sell us new pants.

Comment by dr howard davis on October 26, 2009 at 8:21pm

Reggie,
If I can make anyone laugh it's a good thing!!!According to med research laughter is good for the immune system! My question was not hide and seek as you are trying to make it.I merely asked a simple straight question for anyone who had researched the moon.
Your crystal,etc.,enquiry gave me a good laugh so we are even!See I am sking you the question based on your belief system as you have one like any so called believer only with different parameters and concepts.You are very curious why Can't I be?I would like your take on all aspects of the moon.No astrology LOL
If an atheist asks me a quesion about my beliefs fine,but who cares what he is getting at?It doesn't matter unless one is immature.I will focus on his/her question period.A list of say,of 200 reasons we need a moon and another 200 if we lost our moon'and if this makes no difference to your random math thinking.It all happend by 'accidnet';so I would like to hear your reasons why it happend by accident or Vegas chance and how you absolutly know this is how/why it happened -not about peeing on folk's Armani slacks.Yak.I can't even make my mind go to such crude thinking anyway.

Comment by Reggie on October 26, 2009 at 8:45pm

Well, Doctor, we can agree that laughter is good for the soul, but only so far as in a poetic sense.

Forgive my cynicism as I have seen posts start out in much the same manner only to reveal an underlying tone or theme underneath once a few layers are peeled. We had an astrologist who was not an astrologist but was amazed at the power of astrology and regurgitated all sorts of "scholarly" bits with no sources or care for legitimate science. He started off posting under a cloak of normalcy, too. In fact, he claimed an atheist tag only to later use that as a reason we should accept his ideas of cosmic influence on our lives.

The Earth's satellite. What of it? You say it is important, but how? Nelson already said much of what I could or should. Anthropic principle covers it quite tidily. The habitable zone? Well, maybe and maybe so. Nelson forgot to mention that our atmosphere makes things habitable more so than a few million miles or so one way or the other. If things weren't conducive to life, then life would not evolve to question it all.

Death. Not sure where you were aiming at with that. I am perfectly fine with dying. I should clarify that. As Richard Dawkins has said, I may fear dying, but I don't fear death. Simple reason is that the act of dying might be very unpleasant. But death? Well, Samuel Clemens has a great quote about that and it sums up things nicely. I don't understand your statement about a "let's see" approach. Because you can still conceive of loved ones after they perish does not mean you will survive your own death. You will have nothing to see. There will be no "you" to not see it. There will be no you to care one way or another about your predicament that you are not in.

It may seem so gloomy and nihilistic, but I assure you that this is not the path that most people with this view take. We celebrate and appreciate our lives that much more because we are reasonably sure that no eternal afterlife awaits us, and it makes life that much sweeter. Like moonpies.

Comment by Matthew on October 26, 2009 at 10:13pm

Prof. Richard Dawkins talks about all of your "arguments" in The God Delusion. I think that you should read it or listen on audio book.

Comment by Henry Ruddle on October 27, 2009 at 1:26am

Dr.Howard -- Indeed the early Christians were persecuted as atheists, but they were by no means the first. The term has commonly been used throughout history to describe any person or group that does not obey the rules of the prevailing social (usually religious) ideology. Using "atheist" as a label for groups or people who do not believe in a personal god is more recent, although the concept of a universe that exists without the benefit of a god is much older than Christianity. Notably, the earliest and purest forms of Buddhism founded in the 5th century BCE were and are atheist. Atheist sects of Hinduism formed even earlier, although those were violently wiped out by god believers with weapons.

More to your point, the term atheist as it is used in the West in the 21st century, and in particular on this forum, identifies a person who does not believe in any form of god -- no creator gods, no saving gods, no meddling gods, no water gods, no fire gods, no sun gods, etc. (Please note that not believing in god is not the same as believing there is no god.) So you might ask yourself, Dr.Howard, would someone who accepts the label of atheist come by that decision by random chance or on a whim? Especially in christ-infused American culture, it is highly unlikely that a person would just try atheism on like a coat without really thinking it through. So, the audience you addressed with your initial post has by and large already considered the points you raised about death. Atheists have no expectation of life after death in any form, and are just fine with that. Consequently, Atheists do not fear hell or any other supernatural force or punishment cultural sadists have and will dream up. It's a total non-issue, and that often causes confusion during debates and discussions with theists because by and large theists talk as if they are obsessed with death and life after death.

Others in this forum have already addressed where you seemed to have been headed with your observations about the moon and the sun, so I'll stick with your original post. Regarding the moon, I don't know precisely what would happen if it went away. Let's say for the sake of argument that a lot of bad stuff would happen. So what? The moon shows no signs of going away anytime soon, but shit happens. Have another beer.

Regarding the sun being the perfect distance for life to exist on Earth, I say "hurrah!" Again, have another beer. Maybe your intellectual powers would be more usefully exercised by the Lincoln/Kennedy coincidences. They were both succeeded by southern vice presidents named Johnson, you know. Weird, eh? Look it up. There are dozens more spooky similarities. They will definitely get you through the rest of the six-pack.

Comment by Prazzie on October 27, 2009 at 1:57am

Thanks dr howard davis, for your amusing post. From the position of the "Two" and the lack of "One", can I assume that Part One consists of "Death, the ultimate test", a dubious FYI, an assurance that this is not a threat and your sentiment that Death is very, very serious?

This is such a charming post, I'm quite tickled. Others have addressed the points expressed within your post, I'm just here to say delightful! I see you've been researching, um, stuff for 40 years! When you say "consult with a [moon] expert", do you mean talk to such a person in person, or read their work? Could you recommend anyone?

I've seen a lot of posts in my life, but few have reminded me of someone emptying the contents of their pockets on a table. Quirky. I'd also like to commend you for your restrained use of three fullstops in your ellipses.

Comment by Reggie on October 27, 2009 at 12:57pm

When you say "consult with a [moon] expert", do you mean talk to such a person in person, or read their work? Could you recommend anyone?

Prazzie, would a moon expert be also known as a lunatic?

Comment

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page