Just had a chat/debate with a very sweet Jehovas Witness lady who came a'knockin.
It went like this...
Her: We're talking to people about the state of the world, what do you
think about it?
Me: I notice them both carrying bibles so I figure I wouldn't waste
their time and I say....Well it needs improving, but I don't believe in
any Gods that have ever been created by man. Not Thor, Isis, Mythras,
none of the many Hindu Gods, and also not the one you believe in.
Her: Oh so how do you know what to do, how do you know whats right or
wrong?
Me: I try to do as much good for people as I can, and as little harm as
possible. I think we probably share that.
Her: But that came from the bible.
Me: No, I don't think. I think people always knew that it's better to do
things that have a positive outcome, and do less of things that have a
negative outcome. I don't think we would have evolved this far if didn't
know this all along.
Her: But the bible is true because the prophecies came true.
Me: The bible also offers rules for regulating slavery, and says eating
shellfish is an abomination, and that wearing certain blends of cotton
are also an abomination
Her: Laughs and disagrees.
Me: Tells her to re-read leviticus.
Me: I can't be expected to believe the bible has the end of the world
right, when it was off on the creation of the world by over 4.5 billion
years.
Her: But that's a big maybe because you believe in the *theory* of
evolution.
Me: I don't 'believe' in it, I 'understand' it. Do you believe the
planets move around the sun?
Her: I know they do because we can prove that.
Me: Well that is called the Heliocentric *Theory*. In science, things
that are proven by overwhelming evidence are called Theories, like the
theory of Gravity.
Her: But I can't believe that we came from apes.
Me: You don't have to believe that, because that's not what happened.
Apes and Humans share a common ancestor. A mutation in the genetic code
of this species allowed it to thrive in its environment and it went on
to create hairless primates who walk upright and have large brains.
Her: Have you ever seen a human evolve?
Me: No, and I'm not supposed to...mammalian evolution takes place over
millions of years. The evolution of much smaller organisms have been
witnessed in laboratories though.
Her: I admit I don't understand it all, but the idea of God creating
everything just makes more sense to me.
Me: Well I wouldn't shoot myself in the foot like that if I were you.
Just because you admit you either haven't had the time, desire, or
ability to understand evolution doesn't mean it's a good idea to resort
to "god must have did it".
Her: No I understand it enough, I have read about it, actually did you
know there are lots of scientists who have left the idea of Evolution
and don't support that any more?
Me: I don't believe there are lots, but in all professions you have
those who want to go against the accepted position, especially when
religion gets involved. I am sure there are lots of Jehovas Witnesses
who have left your religion, but I don't think you would want to suggest
that it means your religion is wrong.
At this point her friend who was quiet the entire time looked at her
watch, and they said they had to get going. What really makes this story
though is that when they came to the door I had no shirt on, so I
grabbed a brown wool throw and wrapped it around my upper body and stood
there for 20 minutes in it talking to them...that must have made it
much harder for them to take me seriously.
I was also glad they left before I got into the whole Craig Venter
thing, I wanted to make her think a little, not send her home to fix a
blank gaze at the wall wondering why her world came crashing down on her
after talking to a dude wrapped in a brown throw.
Her: We're talking to people about the state of the world, what do you
think about it?
Me: I notice them both carrying bibles so I figure I wouldn't waste
their time and I say....Well it needs improving, but I don't believe in
any Gods that have ever been created by man. Not Thor, Isis, Mythras,
none of the many Hindu Gods, and also not the one you believe in.
Her: Oh so how do you know what to do, how do you know whats right or
wrong?
Me: I try to do as much good for people as I can, and as little harm as
possible. I think we probably share that.
Her: But that came from the bible.
Me: No, I don't think. I think people always knew that it's better to do
things that have a positive outcome, and do less of things that have a
negative outcome. I don't think we would have evolved this far if didn't
know this all along.
Her: But the bible is true because the prophecies came true.
Me: The bible also offers rules for regulating slavery, and says eating
shellfish is an abomination, and that wearing certain blends of cotton
are also an abomination
Her: Laughs and disagrees.
Me: Tells her to re-read leviticus.
Me: I can't be expected to believe the bible has the end of the world
right, when it was off on the creation of the world by over 4.5 billion
years.
Her: But that's a big maybe because you believe in the *theory* of
evolution.
Me: I don't 'believe' in it, I 'understand' it. Do you believe the
planets move around the sun?
Her: I know they do because we can prove that.
Me: Well that is called the Heliocentric *Theory*. In science, things
that are proven by overwhelming evidence are called Theories, like the
theory of Gravity.
Her: But I can't believe that we came from apes.
Me: You don't have to believe that, because that's not what happened.
Apes and Humans share a common ancestor. A mutation in the genetic code
of this species allowed it to thrive in its environment and it went on
to create hairless primates who walk upright and have large brains.
Her: Have you ever seen a human evolve?
Me: No, and I'm not supposed to...mammalian evolution takes place over
millions of years. The evolution of much smaller organisms have been
witnessed in laboratories though.
Her: I admit I don't understand it all, but the idea of God creating
everything just makes more sense to me.
Me: Well I wouldn't shoot myself in the foot like that if I were you.
Just because you admit you either haven't had the time, desire, or
ability to understand evolution doesn't mean it's a good idea to resort
to "god must have did it".
Her: No I understand it enough, I have read about it, actually did you
know there are lots of scientists who have left the idea of Evolution
and don't support that any more?
Me: I don't believe there are lots, but in all professions you have
those who want to go against the accepted position, especially when
religion gets involved. I am sure there are lots of Jehovas Witnesses
who have left your religion, but I don't think you would want to suggest
that it means your religion is wrong.
At this point her friend who was quiet the entire time looked at her
watch, and they said they had to get going. What really makes this story
though is that when they came to the door I had no shirt on, so I
grabbed a brown wool throw and wrapped it around my upper body and stood
there for 20 minutes in it talking to them...that must have made it
much harder for them to take me seriously.
I was also glad they left before I got into the whole Craig Venter
thing, I wanted to make her think a little, not send her home to fix a
blank gaze at the wall wondering why her world came crashing down on her
after talking to a dude wrapped in a brown throw.
-
Comment by Renshia on June 30, 2010 at 4:12am -
It sounds like a great conversation. A small seed planted and all that stuff. Good work.
-
Comment by sukhdeep on June 30, 2010 at 7:42am -
polite but firm.....nice
-
Comment by schparrow on June 30, 2010 at 9:40am -
Thanks Renshia, I'm having a hard time with the blog. I actually copied this text from a post I had made on facebook, which I think is why it came up the way it did. I've since been trying to change the font colour and publish the edit but it keeps telling me it is awaiting approval and the post seems to have no body to it now.
Thanks sukhdeep! I'm new here as of last night, you guys should add me.
Cheers!
-
Comment by Renshia on June 30, 2010 at 11:28am
-
no problem, schparrow
What I found works, if you are copying from another site, open up a notepad document and paste it there first. It will remove all formatting that will effect how it shows up on this site. Then recopy it from notepad and paste it to the blog. The text will be formatted to match the site.
-
Comment by schparrow on June 30, 2010 at 12:24pm
-
Good tip Renshia, I actually tried that with MS Word, but that doesn't strip the formatting the same way I imagine notepad would. Another feature that Gaytor pointed out to me was the Tx button, if you paste something, highlight all the text and hit the Tx button, it also removes the formatting. It might make the post look funny in the back-end (mine had no spaces), but when I published it, it came out fine.
-
Comment by Christopher McGuire on June 30, 2010 at 5:25pm -
Good job, mate. I like it!
-
Comment by Annie on June 30, 2010 at 6:30pm -
Bravo! You were very respectful and peaceful, yet firm in your intelligent responses. These are the kinds of conversations we should be having with theists when they come to our door. Enlighten them, rather than telling them to get lost and slamming the door! :)
-
Comment by schparrow on July 1, 2010 at 3:15am
-
Hey! How sweet of you all to comment. Many thanks. Add me! :)
-
Comment by wisp on July 1, 2010 at 12:53pm -
Nice! Maybe she's one of those who will actually learn to think critically in areas relating to belief. I know I've been much more honest with myself in the years since I learned to stop sticking my fingers in my ears. XD
-
Comment by Robert DeVore on July 2, 2010 at 2:53am -
nice. Hopefully she thinks about what you said. I think you played it right by actually talking to her instead of just bashing her in the head with the truth - religious people hate that :)
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