Comment by Lee Symes on July 8, 2011 at 10:21am

See if, while your reading her suggested book, she will read a book suggested by you.  I would recommend god is not great, or A Letter to a Christian Nation.

If she says yes go for it.  Read both books in parallel discussion each chapter at a time.

Comment by Scarlette Blues on July 8, 2011 at 10:35am

I had thought about that but not reading them parallel. Thanks for a great idea!

Comment by Bailey Shoemaker Richards on July 8, 2011 at 10:38am

I recently had a similar experience. I'm out as an atheist to my family and on Facebook, and it's clearly bothering my aunt. For my college graduation gift, she got me an engraved Bible, a book by C. S. Lewis (Mere Christianity) and Lee Strobel's Case for Christ. In each one, she wrote a little note about my "search for Truth" and how she hopes I "find Him" at the end of it. 

 

The motive, I think, in both our situations is probably close to the same. It's a (maybe) well-intentioned but passive-aggressive attack on the fact that we don't share their faith and it's threatening to them. 

 

I know in the case of my family, they assume that "it's a phase" or I'm "closed-minded" and "haven't considered the evidence." They think if they send me the right links or give me the right books I'll say, "D'oh! You were right ALL ALONG. This book by Lee Strobel that almost every Christian I've argued with brings up without having read it themselves has now convinced me because you gave it to me as a gift. Never mind that none of the 'evidence' in any of these books ever stacks up against reality. Let's go to church." 

 

Gag. 

 

It can't hurt to read the book, in all honesty. I read anything and everything I can get my hands on, including Christian and Muslim apologetics. Generally speaking, they range from hilarious misrepresentations of their own positions as well as what it means to be an atheist to horribly offensive conjectures about the sad, depressing lives we all must lead without Jebus/Allah. 

Comment by Kenneth Montville D.D. on July 8, 2011 at 10:52am

My suggestion: Read the book, take extensive notes, and then rip the arguments to shreds in your "discussion" with Mr. Youth Pastor.

Comment by Scarlette Blues on July 8, 2011 at 11:13am

@Bailey- I thought the same thing. Is he actually expecting me to bow down after reading this one book? Its almost insulting that he may think I haven't taken the time to do my own research. If their own holy book didn't work to keep me a Christian, what makes him think this one author can do the trick.

Lol, it makes me wish Fred Phelps would publish a book and make a case for his church's teachings. That's be the perfect return gift!

@Kenneth- That's my plan. I also plan to bring up some hard philisophical & moral questions, as well. Wouldn't it be funny if his plan backfires & my friend hops to the atheist side of the fence?

Comment by Alice Browne on July 8, 2011 at 11:41am

I like the idea of taking notes. Maybe use color-coded highlighters to break the text down into categories like "baseless assumptions" or "appeals to emotion" or "complete bloody nonsense".

Comment by Daniel Clear on July 8, 2011 at 12:10pm

I'd be inclined to decline. this would be seen as an admission of defeat I'm sure but I don't know if there's anything to be gained.

 

I once tried to appease someone who did a similar thing. not with religion but something very similar, a book by David Icke (for non-UK residents, he was a sports presenter who suddenly became the messiah then discovered he wasn't but was on a mission from some good aliens to help rid the world of bad aliens/lizard-people/jews, i forget now).

 

The trouble was twofold. firstly, after reading less than one chapter I'd had enough. it was, to use that lovely turn of phrase, "not even wrong" it was so bad. the guy who lent it to me was utterly deluded also and any attempt to engage with him was destroyed by his constantly jumping from one position to another, even arguing against his own points yet unaware he was doing it and that my questioning his logic was taken as twisting his words.

 

My point is, go for it if you're up for the challenge but beware of looking back one day and realising you gave up some of your own precious time to humour a wannabe converter who will have no idea whatsoever that his argument has been destroyed.

 

As for the book title, I like it. If a believer (who by nature has faith to move mountains in their own little minds) thinks they lack the faith of an atheist just tell them to try harder

Comment by Michael Marrero on July 8, 2011 at 12:35pm

I wouldn't debate him at all. You shouldn't have to explain yourself to anyone let alone to a person trying to convince you that you are wrong simply because you're an Atheist. You can debate with him all you want he will still spew illogical nonsense from his holy book. Youth pastors are especially difficult to reason with. They believe it is their duty to indoctrinate others.

Comment by sukhdeep on July 8, 2011 at 6:19pm

i saw a video/debate over here a while ago, which suggested about, asking him what his beliefs are and tell them to you. that will make him think before he opens his mouth, and u and ur friend may get a kick out of it........

Comment by Kris Feenstra on July 8, 2011 at 6:32pm

It seems to all be available on google books here, for anyone who is curious.

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