I'm an immoral believer in nothing? Jerks.

Being treated as if I believe in nothing and considered immoral because I’m an atheist is frustrating, but it really shows me who’s paying attention, who’s arrogant, and who’s clueless about reality.

Piers Anthony wrote about a kind of atheist in “On A Pale Horse,” completely misrepresenting atheism if his logic were applied to the real world, though it made sense in his fictional world of magic and magical beings. I think this is a common mistake people make about atheism and atheists. The stigma or label appears to tell people that atheists are atheists no matter what, whether the proof of gods exist or not, dogmatically insisting there is no god even if a god proved she existed.

Apparently, the idea that atheists believe in nothing is so common that there are even some atheists that believe this nonsense. “Atheist” speaks to only one supernatural aspect involving deities. Other, broader definitions that include distheists, anti-theists, agnostics, which have the common denominator of no proof of a god’s existence, can be included in this, but just because an atheist sees no evidence your god is real does not mean that an atheist has no belief in anything at all.

So, someone saying atheists are immoral people that don’t believe in anything demonstrates a common mean spirited attack on something they do not understand or are too bigoted to care.

Anyway, that's my rant.

Views: 357

Comment by Gallup's Mirror on December 2, 2012 at 11:24am

"If you don't believe in god, then there is nothing left to believe in, since god made everything. So, if you don't believe in god, you believe in nothing."

I believe God is ignorance, not nothing. So if you believe God is everything, then everything you believe is ignorance.

I'd rather presume to know nothing than presume to know everything.

Comment by archaeopteryx on December 2, 2012 at 12:06pm

@Jared - RE: "Hitler had been known to quote the bible to further his agenda."

"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ... We need believing people."
-- Adolf Hitler --
April 26, 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of 1933.

"Who says I am not under the special protection of God?"
-- Adolph Hitler --

"I trust God speaks through me."
-- George W. Bush --

Oops, how did that one get in there --?

Comment by Melvinotis on December 2, 2012 at 12:41pm

Though all of the comments regarding this thread are great, I'm afraid you've done the equivalent of citing an Onion headline as something to get up in arms about.

The author cited, Piers Anthony, is an Atheist writer and might be the equivalent of an Atheist J.K. Rowling. I have read On A Pale Horse several times, and the entire 7 book series all the way through at least twice. 

His reference to atheism is most probably a poke of fun at himself. The series Incarnations of Eternity gives humans the "jobs" of Death, Time, Earth Mother, Fate, War, Satan and even God. I would recommend his books especially to young adults because he does a fantastic job skewering and discussing the inconsistencies and fallacies ascribed to those who are given the authorities and abilities of gods. 

His books are fun reads, he loves puns and is a champion for human rights through his many, many books.

More adult readers would like his God of Tarot series, which also twists adherents into truly following their various rules and creeds. 

Piers Anthony was probably the first writer to expose me to rational, skeptical thinking, and he does this in a thoroughly entertaining way. My son hated reading, so on his 14th birthday, I bought him On A Pale Horse, and he read through the entire series within about three months. He demanded that I buy him the books, this kid who couldn't stand reading. Back when I first encountered them, Piers was still writing them, so I had to wait up to two years between books. 

So again, all the comments on this thread--good, but don't throw Piers Anthony under the bus, he's a good guy.

All of my book references come through the ThinkAtheist Radio link, so don't forget to use that if you want to buy the books.

Cheers

Comment by archaeopteryx on December 2, 2012 at 1:20pm

Comment by Strega on December 2, 2012 at 1:29pm

Comment by Cara Coleen on December 2, 2012 at 1:42pm

@Jared

I get what you're saying, but I think the label "sin" goes much deeper than merely missing the mark. When Christians want you to admit you're a sinner, they want you to wrap the label into your identity. You've not just committed sin... you are a sinner. It defines you. I refuse to call myself a sinner --even while I admit I'm not perfect and do indeed "miss the mark" at times-- because I refuse to concede that I'm so "wretched", and worthy of burning in Hell simply for being born.

Also, I will not repent of being sinful, because I am not ashamed of who I am. They want you to feel shame and regret for not being perfect and holy; for not being born "clean". I value myself; I value myself to admit when I do wrong and try to improve. I don't have to loath myself, and beg the god who created me this way for forgiveness. I won't play their game. Ya know? It's self-depricating, and that's all part of schtick of Christianity. They're able to control people through guilt.

Comment by Cara Coleen on December 2, 2012 at 1:44pm

^Not sure if you were saying we should use the words they use just to appease them or gain understanding. That was the impression I got initially, but rereading your post... maybe not. lol

Comment by kris feenstra on December 2, 2012 at 2:09pm

The author cited, Piers Anthony, is an Atheist writer and might be the equivalent of an Atheist J.K. Rowling.

I don't know if things have changed since the 80s, but I'm pretty sure Piers Anthony flatly rejected the term 'atheist' and favoured the term 'agnostic' when that book was written. While a modern atheist may go into the 'agnostic atheist' spiel these days, I don't think that was a common way to use the terms back then. 

Comment by Dale Headley on December 2, 2012 at 2:10pm

To understand the mindset of people who consider atheists, by definition, immoral, you must realize that this is what The New Testament is all about.  Time and again, it is made clear that not believing in the Christian God is the ultimate immorality - the thing that will give you a one-way ticket to hell, regardless of how you behave toward other human beings. 

Comment by Strega on December 2, 2012 at 2:14pm

As Mark Twain said, "Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company". 

I asked a believer whether or not Heaven was no-smoking.  Apparently it is.  Who knew?  At least where I'm headed, I'll be able to get a light for my cigarette.

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