I just can't seem to resist getting into discussions with a certain woman on Facebook.  She's not my friend, but she's a friend of a friend, so occasionally we can both comment on the common person's posts.  

Yesterday she told me, again, that I'm not an atheist.  She says I am an agnostic because I don't think I can know for sure whether or not there is a deity.  This is true, but I also don't believe any deity exists.  This is a bit of semantics, really, but what I can't get over is the unmitigated audacity of this woman to not only say she is sure what she believes is correct for all of humanity, but also that I am having a double standard by saying my beliefs are more valid than hers.  

I do think my beliefs are more valid than hers, but I didn't say that to her.  I really don't care what she believes.  My point was that I don't want her to include me in her "we" have to love Jesus, or "we" have to read the Bible to know Jesus."  No we don't.

From communicating with her before, I know trying to get her to give me the respect she wants from me, and which I believe I have given, is like trying to teach a pig to dance - it doesn't work and it annoys the pig.  So I told her she can call me an atheist, agnostic, or unbeliever, as she prefers, and she'd be right!  I also confessed that I have never met Jesus.  That's really rather the point, isn't it?  Truer words were never said.

She said that I've never met her mother, but should I deny her existence?  That's just silly.  I believe that the overzealous Facebook proselytizer believes in Jesus, and I'm not trying to convince her otherwise.  She, on the other hand, "knows" I'm misled and has no qualms about telling me.  

I will confess that there is a part of me that wants to say, "Nope!  I don't, won't, can't, wouldn't, mustn't believe in your deity," but then I would be accused of protesting too much.  It's a tricky game, this being honestly, unapologetically, respectfully atheist/agnostic/unbeliever.  Yet, as Martin Luther is said to have uttered, "Here I stand.  I can do no other."  It was a different issue, but the principles are the same.

Views: 408

Comment by Diane on March 18, 2012 at 8:29pm

Oh, THAT Jesus!   Why didn't they say that in the first place?

Comment by SteveInCO on March 18, 2012 at 10:04pm

"She said atheists don't exist because God has never been disproved. "

Well by that logic since unicorns have never been disproved everyone believes in them.

Comment by archaeopteryx on March 18, 2012 at 10:04pm

Maybe it was the "Hey-soos" pronunciation  that threw you --;) winking

Comment by Scott Howard on March 18, 2012 at 10:39pm
Diane, I go through this with my wife. Even though I renounced my Christian faith 3 years ago, my wife continues to tell me that she know that I am still a Christian and that I'm either "just mad at God" or "searching for something".

There's no talking to her. While she's not rude about it, she is resolute and nothing I've said or done thus far has changed her mind.
Comment by Scott Howard on March 18, 2012 at 10:44pm
@arch your Jesus comment reminded me of a pic I saw of a family praying "Thank you Jesus for this food..." the pic below it showed a Latino farm worker and the caption said "de nanda".
Comment by Scott Howard on March 18, 2012 at 11:01pm
Ha! I knew I saw that pic somewhere, I forgot that it was right here on TA!
Comment by Jimmy Russell on March 18, 2012 at 11:42pm

people like her could be presented with rock solid concrete proof that gods or god do not exist and that religion is a sham but she would still be in denial.  its an epiphany that you have to have all on your own i think for those people.  and fat chance of that.  i think to them the idea that there is no god and this is all you get is to scary for them to deal with.  funny, the scariest thing to me is like you have said diane, these people control and have say in so many aspects of our lives all the while denying the facts right in front of their faces.  eek. 

Comment by archaeopteryx on March 19, 2012 at 12:28am

"de nada" is the Hispanic equivalent of "you're welcome" in English, but it literally means, "of nothing," much as we would say in English, "It was nothing." But I get the irony - it was the farm laborer that provided the food, not god.

Comment by Diane on March 21, 2012 at 6:58am

Good Lord!  She's damned me to Hell and given up on me!  She says all I want to do is argue and I'm not open-minded.  Oh, that's rich!  At least I have respectfully said my piece. I told her that her trying to convince me to believe in her god is like attempting to by kiwis in a shoe store - it won't work.  

I love it that she says the onus is on me to seek out HER god.  I told her that the best messengers for Christ I have encountered talk less and walk the walk more.  I do know people like that - it is much more effective in my opinion.  Well, this round is over -- she has washed her hands of me.  I don't feel like I've won anything, really, except being true to myself and absolutely not apologizing.

Comment by archaeopteryx on March 21, 2012 at 10:08am

Diane - believe me when I say I'm not referring to you, but RE: " talk less and walk the walk more... it is much more effective in my opinion" - don't you find that's true of atheists as well?

pax vobiscum,


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