God seems to be the only reason people claim to be socially loving and caring, without god do we really revert to lonesome creatures?

I don't think it's in human nature to be individually separated from everyone, the way churches do and claim otherwise. uniting few and only separating them from the world. But even if the argument was made that men have moved forward through centuries of social stigmas and hundreds of religions. From a "barbaric" alpha dominated, kill or be killed strong world. To social classes from slavery to feudalism, and our own illustrious capitalism. Thanks supposably to god and religious institutions, forgetting all those people who suffered and belittling their pain and suffering to thank a mythological being.

Then why can't we move from the human beings that needed to fight and separate each other and evolve to a higher standard where we can all be equals. If we agree on evolution i think we can find a good correlation between a biological evolution and a social one. It's not a far stretch to assume, that like natural selection. A world thought or view will not be changed overnight, slowly the stronger traits will prevail.

But why at such a height of intelligence, can't we just let go of the fears that existed before and pushed us into the need to believe? We are at a perfect point in this world with technology and desire to take a leap of faith and help everyone out. Instead of fighting people's beliefs, we should try to understand what pushes people into such a corner in their life. And understand that our society as a whole is sick, and that we all need to change. Purge out the old society and government actions that only proliferate the old ways of thinking.

We have to see that both sides must shed their pride to move forward and be able to put a stop to what chases us all into corners and dark holes. Everyone has a reason to believe in what they believe, the problem is not how they act, or they think. But why? It is all a symptom of a sick society we try to fit into, and what needs to be done is to take a hard look at this sick world. And decide to stop being sick, stop being the one that promotes hate and anger.

The same anger that leads to war and destruction, that pushes people into corners. That's what leads people into desiring a god, the belief of a greater good. That's what makes us choose sides and like a gang war cause stupid fighting. Religious institutions are scapegoats to make us concentrate on other subjects that don't matter, and control us. Why do people pray to god? Debts, and money.

People today are slaves, since they begin their education. They are thought how to think, what to believe in and how to live their life. And it all comes down to money, a wealthy person has no concern for god.

Unfortunately most of us don't have that luxury. Most people in prison believe in god, they hope for a better life. Most soldiers believe in god, we all want to survive when people around us are dying. And why do people become soldiers to fight a war, why do people go to prison?

In some way or other it ends up being about money, no one will risk getting in trouble or risking their life if they didn't feel that the risk would pay off. Patriotism is the worst, because it is still an institution. Patriotism, churches and money are all the religions that truly control us all.

These are ways to control the way we think, live our lives and the work we'll accomplish while we live.

Our fight over god, is just a way to make us all think that we cannot live in peace. That we think so drastically different from each other that there will always be war and we'll always fight each other. As if it is the natural way of humanity, i would figure that centuries of social evolution should be able to open are eyes by now.

And we would be able to see just why it is important to keep us distracted on such subjects as the existence of god. I don't believe god exist, having said that i came to that conclusion on my own. As many people should have, and honestly the only way it should be. We should be able to create a society where we are able to foster a comfort zone to allow all type of believes starting from the tolerance that we require.

The issue no longer is just about religion, we must see the big picture. Because that is how it is run. Politicians talk about god, money and control. They don't see these things as separate entities.

These are all one and the same and should be handled as such. Politicians know, we should know too.

So next time you hear about someone saying they believe in god. Don't just smirk and try to show them why they're stupid. But also don't keep quite, approach them the way you would want to be approached. As an adult who's ideas are heard and respected.

You'll learn that their faith comes from family dying in wars or tragic accidents, coincidences that feel like miracles. Something we've been lucky not to have experienced, and if maybe these people found the emotional solace that they required here on earth as true and honest physical relationship they wouldn't need to believe in god either.

Together we can rid ourselves of this notion of a god, that does things that hurt us so because he knows better and in the end it'll be for the greater good.

Life is hard and we're all fighting to be the best we can and be happy so we can help ourselves and our loved ones. Why do we want to make that harder for anyone else? We wouldn't want that.

A change has to start with us, and if we can really hold on to that and believe in it. It will be contagious and people will no longer want to hate each other. As atheist we have the responsibility to show tolerance and understanding, to convert for all the right reasons. Get rid of this elitist feeling of superiority, and open up even to those that hate us.

I heard someone say once, "As a parent you have the responsibility to show your kids that they shouldn't fear growing up, but show them a happy life so they can look forward to growing older". I thought to myself that makes sense, but is also hard and not to mention disingenuous. But it is our own fault for allowing our society to get out of control and not care about people's happiness but the wealth of a few.

So as an atheist i think we have the responsibility to show others that we are compassionate and open, yes, basically set the example of the change we are looking for. How many of us have actually thought about the change we want, or the way of life we hope to have someday? If you haven't you should, and if you have we can make it happen.

Change begins slowly, and one person can always make a difference. In the end it has always been that way, and we talk about them all the time.



Views: 66

Comment by Arcus on June 16, 2011 at 5:07pm

"People today are slaves, since they begin their education."

Education is not slavery, it's liberty. Forced education is the key to spreading atheism. Schools and universities are our churches. Or perhaps I have been brainwashed by academic priests into atheism..

"Life is hard"

One example how your life is hard. Just one time when you went to bed hungry or had to live without a roof over your head. Otherwise you are behaving like a spoiled and whining adolescent.

Otherwise, pretty decent rant. :)

Comment by jean Rodriguez on June 16, 2011 at 9:45pm


Knowledge is power, agreed. You confuse great appreciation for knowledge with educational institutions. Schools and colleges today are more of a work training program not interested in teaching a lot of many things and it is reflected on students who don't care about certain classes that don't relate to their desired profession. No sort of forced education is correct, introduction to a new way of thinking and giving people a chance to learn what they desire is what allows people to become atheist. Forcing education is no different than forcing people to believe in god through torture and terrorism.

I've worked my way through life since i was 15 working literally with trash at a plastic recycling company without slowing down and working to this date. I've gone days without food after giving my spoiled dad my money so he can support and feed his 3rd family. I've never had the unfortunate chance to sleep on the streets though, I count myself lucky. I graduated college as a chemistry technician at age 18 and didn't continue going for my engineering degree because i fell in love with philosophy and i decided to wander and study whatever i wanted without caring about how my knowledge would help me get a career.

This isn't a path i recommend to anyone, I don't preach a better lifestyle through my own path. It is my own view on the world. My rant in no way is a preppy college kid's Nietzsche phase, just trying to play devil's advocate so people who disagree (you) can defend their views. If you can't back up your own thoughts, then maybe you should consider a new world view. If not it can always reenforce your own views, either way people have to learn how to defend themselves on their views of life.

So thank you, but i don't like having to prove myself. And i don't think it's right to try to smash people's new ways of thinking because you think they're teenagers going through a phase. Even if it was; you don't want to destroy the seed of youthful rebellion because you don't think they've earned it. Now that really is a holier than though attitude, and people should be given the opportunity to reach the point that they can feel safe to express themselves.

Don't take this the wrong way if i sound like i'm arguing back, i'm not. :)

I'm confident in my ideas, and hopefully someday everyone's ideas will be respected equally. It won't change the laws of nature, but we should all be allowed to be happy or at least try.

Comment by Arcus on June 20, 2011 at 12:28pm

It depends on your mindset. Some people are more philosophical and artistic, wanting to discover the true meaning of one specific thing or capturing just one moment as accurately as possible. Then there are the scientists who depicts their world in physical forces and attempt to understand everything except themselves. Lastly are the behaviorists, which look at humans and their interactions. 

As for education, you speak of all the great philosophers you have read. How many of them were not associated with the academia you purport to be enslaving souls?

Comment by jean Rodriguez on June 20, 2011 at 3:35pm

Well i don't categorize people, but if you must that is one way to look at it. I still think it's wrong to judge people as either artistic or scientific could define who they are. Or how they wish to live their life reflects any way possible with who they are. If their mindset were artistic or philosophical, i can still believe they could be and probably are out there right now great doctors or scientist. After all it's the out of the box thinking that give us our greatest thinkers of all time.

From your argument i can get a great feel of maybe a pride i'm poking at, possibly an attempt to humble your elitist view points. Caused by years of hardship and studying hard to graduate college and get a career. So i apologize if i insulted you, in no way am i trying to belittle your life or the way you live it.

But you are still categorizing and separating people by job skills and assuming that defines who they are. It is much easier to look at someone you don't know by defining him by his job. I was at fault of that myself for years, and it's hard to deprogram yourself from that. I still try to, i catch myself still judging people by the way they think or live their lives or the job they do.

I feel i should go back and apologize, instead i talk to them and try to get to know them.

An educational program is not the same as learning to know, you are learning to become something. Which is the difference that i am trying to get across. A job placement program is different from learning to know something. You have to be driven from a desire within to help people if you want to become a doctor not just a big paycheck. 

I don't think i've spoken of philosophers i have read, i'm guessing you mean that comparison i made earlier of teenagers going through a Nietzsche phase? I assumed Nietzsche was a well known philosopher that i could reference of what you assumed a rebellious teenager would quote. But to be fair i have read Nietzsche, and i'm guessing you're referencing his education?

There are different approaches i could go to response this, for example the way i was talking about social evolution. How about educational evolution? We purge our studies from erroneous theories as they become debunked, they live in our history nonetheless. But Education should be as progressive as our science is. We have very high and hard standards to develop and form new theories, our education system should follow the same path. Instead of having so many online colleges or quick job training placement programs. My issues are not with schools, but the instituions that run them and the corrupt systems that control education for their own political motives.

I figured people would read what i wrote and realize that i'm not trying to get rid of schools and turn the world into hippies holding hands. But i guess i should clarify. We need schools and i love schools. But they have quickly turned from what they were originally intended to do. And are being used for social manipulation not education. They control the people by controlling their minds and desires. And educational institutions are at fault for a great deal of that, as if saying go to college if you want a good life. That is an easy cop out to justify people's hardships in life. Instead of having to deal with difficult issues that only few people want to keep hidden so they can continue to control the population as they wish.

We no longer live in that era, life moves on and evolves. It is wrong to assume we haven't moved forward and we're still living a hundred years ago 200 years ago etc. We still talk about Newton but we're not stuck in that timeframe, we've continued to improve on what we know now and continue forward.

Why would you assume that things don't change, or that things were better back then? What is societies desired result in the end? Isn't it for everyone to live together and happily? Isn't that what they tell us when we go to war or pass a new law?

I think, if you allow me a second to get my message across. Hopefully if you've gotten this far through my rant you will, i know i go on forever i'm sorry.

But i think people are stuck in the past and are scared to move forward, because there isn't anything scarier than change. We fight it, literally going to war to defend are established way of life. Scared of other people with a different way of life putting us in a defensive position having to violently defend our views. I think that we no longer are just fighting because gods like the crusades, but politicians and other governments. Religion has always been the way to keep the slave population and armies to fight the wars, but with todays technology where we're more informed. More and more people become wise to politicians and hidden agendas. The more atheist there are the harder societies become to control, and they've seen this growing trend for centuries. And they've contrived of smarter ways to keep us enslaved busy with other things.

And that's the point i'm trying to make, we're so concerned about fighting about our beliefs and trying to open people's eyes to atheism that we don't realize we're still being controlled. We might not call it god but we can call it whatever the vice may be. Money, drugs, power anything we fill the void up with when we remove god.

You sound like a smart guy i would enjoy having a beer with, if we can't just know that i do appreciate you and your thoughts.

Comment by Arcus on June 20, 2011 at 4:41pm

Quite well thought out, though I would interject to your "An educational program is not the same as learning to know, you are learning to become something." that it is absolutely correct. You learn to become educated and to educate others. One of the prerequisites to doing well in college is to tutor and be taught as much as possible in as short as time frame as possible, 70-80 hours per week is quite common. As there is strict judgment of results and not really any second chances, it takes discipline. The German word is Ausbildung, where 'bildung' means essentially becoming a person better adjusted to society through general knowledge, cultural behavior, and insights which society believes are desirable and good.

This is why education is important, because an educated person in a group increases the education of all the members of the group, thus increasing collective knowledge and leading to socially beneficial side effects.

Thus the difference between self-attained and college-acquired knowledge is the education part, which is interrelated with attaining of knowledge, but not the whole story. Just like football indoctrinates people into the rules of football, education indoctrinates students into the rules of reason.

Most doctors have fairly meager pay checks, especially the non-medical doctors. I was more motivated by money and making an impact in the real world, so I did not proceed into research. Doctors may not be motivated by money in the same way as you are - it has no direct motivational effect on me at all. It's the "stuff" I can acquire with these money which is more important. I recently moved and took a 50% pay cut in the process, how would you explain that with money as the only explanatory factor? On the other hand, more money give me access to more stuff I want. The same is valid for every person, though some have less desire for stuff than others.

Nietzsche was trained in philosophy by years of education, which means he cannot be read without the guidance of a teacher. He is well known and understood by anyone close to Germany. Though I must say my personal favorites are Schopenhauer - which taught to an empty classroom in defiance of Hegel's teachings in the next room - and Diogenes - the public masturbater. Contrarians are the most exciting, not conformists.

I am a bit worried to read that you believe people are somehow deluded into believing non-existent benefits of education in favor of some grand scheme. It sounds to me like you have a substantial external locus of control. Take this quick self test, then read about it. It's real main stream science which has been around since the sixties and been proven accurate. Usually atheists are to the right on the scale.

Here's another you. Draw three rings which size represents the importance of your past, the present and the future.

You also made a big move from "I" to "we", specific to general, when you made your conclusion. Who specifically are the we in "We fight it, literally going to war to defend are established way of life."? I work to beyond my established way of life, to improve somehow. I would only defend myself from those who wish to take that chance away. Protecting established life just to protect it is a reactionary thought.

Try filling up that void after god with beer instead. Delicious, delicious beer. :)


Comment by jean Rodriguez on June 20, 2011 at 8:08pm

It's funny it doesn't really seem like we're arguing when we both agree on knowledge and learning. We both agree in education and schools, i just don't like seeing politics controlling them. It's how things are thought and why certain things are thought and others aren't, and who decides what we get to learn. We then allow certain programs that harm education instead of promoting them. Allowing such nonsense as warning labels that clarify evolution as a theory for example, as if the scientific community where in a disagreement as if it really happened.

I have a very open view on life and yours may be a bit more focused on your specific goals. But as you collect the stuff you want don't forget even though you're an individual, you live in a society which means other people will always be around. I'm sure you moved because you wanted to and it made you happy, we're told that money allows us that luxury and that's why we covet it so much. And learning doesn't end at college or when you graduate.

Doctors pay checks just felt like a trivial profession that was common for me to throw out there, i didn't mean anything against doctors. It was a generalization of when you hear people talking about what they want to do when they grow up, doctor is a pretty popular one.

One original thought is worth a thousand quotes, Diogenes is a good one. I'm more inclined towards Machiavelli and J. Krishnamurti.

I do think people are tricked into learning for the wrong reasons, from the lack of education and greater wisdom that may someday free people's spirit from the binding force that some people call god.

You point out a flaw of mine where i jump from I to we, i don't think it's a flaw of my character or personality as you think. But even though i count myself an individual driven towards my own desires and goals and also some stuff. I can't ignore that everyone is part of a social grouping called humanity, and the more we build to separate each other the more we lose touch with others. And if i were only concerned on defending myself when i was attacked, i would learn quickly that everyone i loved has been destroyed. Because instead of fighting for them, I allowed them to be taken away by the current of misinformation because i was too concerned with my own well being.

Which really sucks when you think back and try to translate myths and religions, you find that not only did they try to explain the unkown with what they knew back then. But their main driving force was to unite everyone and not to kill each other and go to war.

Cheers (I call dibs on the dark)

Comment by Sophie on June 22, 2011 at 12:12pm
light for me.
Comment by jean Rodriguez on June 22, 2011 at 3:28pm

light in what sense? i am guilty of many times skimming through my ideas because i just assume people know what i'm talking about so i fall short in explaining myself. If so what part and i can try to explain myself better.

Or light in the sense that tougher actions should be taken instead of being so lenient?

Comment by Pope Beanie on August 3, 2011 at 7:54pm

I like everything you're saying, but I might not say it's all about money. I think it's more about what basic needs money enables, like quality food, shelter, health, etc. The basic hierarchical needs ala Mazlow. Sure, beyond that, greed can be a problem too, so perhaps what's done with the excess money/resources to help people in need is another important, closely related topic.

I'm talking with people almost every day now who like to talk about how they have faith or believe in this or that system of beliefs, based only on anecdotal evidence. Many, many people have faith or belief just because they're too easily influenced by the people around them. I think this is human nature, built into us from since we evolved as tribal cultures. So it's going to take a lot of introspection, objectivity, and humility to admit that we as a culture need to constantly strive to overcome some of these aspects of our evolved, genetic heritage... or revert back to our more natural, uneducated, tribal environments with prejudices, no time to learn about the rest of the world or human history, shorter lives, and so on.


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