Are you a theist that would like me to convert to your religion? I will happily become a Christian or a Muslim if you can describe your God to me and offer me some objective evidence as to why I should trust what you are telling me to be true.

When I say “evidence” I mean even a tiny scrap of something that is tangible, that exists outside of your mind. I am not asking for, or even expecting any “Proofs”. Just something I could later build upon as my understanding of your (my) God develops.

I have just 2 conditions.

  1.  You cannot use your books as proof of anything. It is circular reasoning to try to prove the Bible or Koran by using either book as being the proof of itself.

      2.  An argument for your belief is not evidence for it.

If you are successful I will convert “live on air” and renounce my Atheism. I will then feature this blog. If you have any conditions we can discuss them first or edit mine.

This video is a very precise reflection of my position. It might help you to understand me more.

Views: 416

Comment by Davis Goodman on November 25, 2015 at 5:15pm

Maybe we can all pledge the same thing (sincerely...hopefully). I'll also gladly begin to believe in a bearded man in the sky who eavesdrops on our thoughts and burns you for eternity: if those two conditions are met.

Comment by TJ on November 25, 2015 at 6:27pm

I noticed you only said Christian or Muslim...what if the proof is from some guy who throws virgins into a volcano, or is say, um, Jewish, etc...but has the proof, does anything go, or just christian or Muslim?

Does the god need to have any particular super powers, or can he simply be their god?

For example, the old testament god was a bit of a ditz, described himself as jealous and angry at times, apologized when he made mistakes, etc, but the new testament was ALL-everything ("perfect"), and so forth.

What if he's NOT omniscient, but a good guesser?

Not omnipotent, but still really strong?

What if he didn't claim to create time and space and matter, or the universe, or earth, but just say, a lot of New Jersey?

Is there an entrance criteria for being a god you'll convert to?

:D

Comment by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on November 25, 2015 at 7:21pm

All I ask is that a definition of the God the theist wants me to convert to be provided. Then I can start to understand what they mean once His powers and abilities are described. It is disingenuous of theists to say that their God exists but not provide a definition of that God. Why is it so difficult for them to offer something that I can begin to “come to know” their God?

I am being sincere here. If someone can give me a meaningful definition of their God that does not contradict itself and give a valid reason to believe what they have come to believe as being a justifiable belief then I will accept their God into my life. What could be easier!!

Comment by matt.clerke on November 26, 2015 at 5:04pm

What if he's NOT omniscient, but a good guesser?

Not omnipotent, but still really strong?

What if he didn't claim to create time and space and matter, or the universe, or earth, but just say, a lot of New Jersey?

Then why call them God? They are just another being of limited power.

Just so we're clear, I take the same stance in regard to most things in life... If it is defined without logical contradiction or circular logic, and there is evidence justifying belief in it, belief becomes a reasonable position. Hence, I have a problem with the ill defined, logically contradictory god with no evidence.

Comment by Belle Rose on November 27, 2015 at 2:05am
I have yet to see a theist (on TA) take you on Reg. I suppose I tried, failed, and realized my foolishness, and i'm still licking my wounds, lol
Comment by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on November 27, 2015 at 6:22am

Hi Belle, I am not sure I agree with your wording. I know you were a theist when you first joined and we did have a few lengthy debates that covered much ground. We were not “fighting” as many theists view it so you have no wounds to lick. You did not “lose your faith”. You gained a new way of looking at the world without a “celestial dictator” controlling your thought process. You claimed your right to think freely. It a win-win for everyone but the rewards are all yours. I may have helped you to see things from a different perspective but it was not a case of “foolishness” on your part.

Even though I have been an atheist for years now, I still sometimes almost cringe when I recall how I once thought. But then I had no choice in the matter as I had been indoctrinated into it. That is why I spend so much time and effort into stopping the indoctrination of children by the religious. It is the only way their belief system can survive. It is offensive to me. The Catholic Church even tries to block the rights of parents where it can. They openly discriminate against atheists which is illegal. Not for much longer. We are now starting to see some positive changes thanks to the good work done by Atheist Ireland :-)

The religious miss the point. They think we are trying to take their faith away from them. We are not. We just want equality. We want to see the “special privilege” given to religion by the Government removed. However we do not want Atheism to be given any special privilege either. We are not trying to swap one with the other. We want a Secular State where everyone is treated equally and no one religion has advantages conferred onto it by the State. We will be the first to stand up and ensure that a Muslim or Catholic has the right to practice their religion but only if they respect our right to not believe what they believe.

Comment by Simon Paynton on November 27, 2015 at 6:52am

According to Trevor, if you don't believe in God, you hate God, which is a pretty big leap, and frankly - ??? there's no logic there. 

Comment by Simon Paynton on November 27, 2015 at 6:52am

Atheist Ireland pretty much rock, it seems like. 

Comment by onyango makagutu on November 27, 2015 at 6:58am

Where is good Dr. Bob when you really need him?

Comment by _Robert_ on November 27, 2015 at 8:54am

The unknown is scary. Our genetic makeup and frequency of events for our populations occurs along a normal bell curve. To us as individuals it seems very random.

To alleviate this we are willing to pay for a story that supplies us all knowledge. All of a sudden we know our creation, our life's purpose, the "rules" and our fate. We know that voice in our heads is our creator, justifying our actions. It is so natural and powerful we will give up on all the unknown truths. That is what god is. The greatest story ever told.

See you in church, Reg?

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