In 1975 a young man made a statement to the Catholic Church to inform them that he had been abused – that is sexually assaulted on more that one occasion by one of their priests.  He also reported that other children were also being abused by the same priest. He was as much concerned for them as he was for himself. He met the church officials and gave his story while his father was asked to remain outside the room. He answered their questions honestly, even providing the names and addresses of the other children as well as times and locations.

This 14 year old boy thought he had rescued his friend for any more abuse. No not a chance. They closed ranks and not only did they not report the sick evil priest to the police they just moved him to another parish where for at least another 10 years he continued to abuse more children. Not only did he continue to abuse this boy’s friend that he tried to rescue but also his sister and 4 of his cousins.

This is now the main news story in Ireland. Everybody is extremely angry except for the usual apologetics who talk about it as if what happened then was not as “sinful” because we did not understand the nature of child abuse then as we do now.  After 20 years of bullshit about changes in the church it is now just more of the same pathetic drivel with no empathy from these self appointed moralists towards the thousands of children that they have abused.

The notary at the meeting is now a Cardinal in charge of the catholic church in Ireland. Not for much longer. After 37 years these 2 boys were reunited as part of the BBC documentary. He turned to his friend and said “I thought I had saved you”

I am now too angry to think clearly enough to write so I will post a few links.

You can watch it here and then use the links on the right to continue to part 2 etc.

Newspaper reaction


Views: 507

Comment by Logicallunatic on May 5, 2012 at 12:50pm

The whole barrel is rotten, never mind the apples : ) and just when we thought we had seen the bottom, it turns out there is a layer of thick scum underneath.  

Comment by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on May 5, 2012 at 1:41pm

Thanks both for you comments. I know we as discussing this as Atheists on an Atheist forum and I am sure that any devout (read deluded) Catholic that may read this will think we have some hidden agenda or are just attacking their church because we are Atheists. However it is way beyond that. What I am raging against is the callous indifferent and anachronistic (nearly wrote antichrist there) machine that is the Catholic Church.

It is an institution that has in the past taken years to apologise for anything. When it does it always tries to make the excuse of “that was how everyone thought then” as if that removes any responsibility for their actions at the time. Examples being attempts at making the tortures of the Inquisition seem somehow justified or apologising to Galileo 300 plus years after he was accused of heresy. However they cannot be allowed the benefit of time in these cases of serial child abuse. They need to act now and divulge all information to the relevant civil authorities in all of the countries where their members – hundreds of them – committed these heinous crimes against humanity. The self assumed privileges they have granted themselves to expect to be treated differently because they are Catholic clergy are pathetic. Fuck canon law. They must be accountable under the civil laws of the land. They have no special status. Jesus must be turning in his grave!!

They need to get real and act now. They are way beyond damage limitation exercises. However it is obvious they still have not faced up to the horrors and crimes of their members. They just don’t get it. They are in denial. Not only did they not report these crimes when they became aware of them, they also tried to cover them up and moved the perpetrators to other dioceses where they continued to abuse more children. It is not enough for them to apologise in 100 years time when they will talk about those dark days which no one now in the Church has any responsibility for. No they need to be punished and jailed now when caught. The rest of those involved should hang their heads in shame and do what would be expected of anyone else. Resign. They must go now before their lack of empathy and lack of compassion causes any more pain to the thousands of survivors waiting for some closure.

Hopefully thiswill play in other regions. The man that sparked the title of this post is at about 6:50 for 6 minutes. The whole debate is the first 21 minutes with the apologetics towards the end. Make your own mind up.

Comment by Dr. Bob on August 2, 2013 at 2:11pm

@Reg asked me to come here and comment as a Catholic.

My comment would be that I largely agree with @Reg.  These people make me furious.  Perhaps as an American I have a "cowboy" attitude, but I'm not entirely sure that if I were aware of a meeting and actions like this that I wouldn't just shoot the lot of them.  Resignation and jail time?  Absolutely on the first.  If convicted on the second.

At the same time, and the risk of being accused of "apologetics", I think @Reg errs in two conclusions.

First, there's no evidence to suggest that the "civil laws of the land" did any better job at protecting kids.  The record of abusers who went without prosecution or parents who abused kids who were allowed to keep their kids isn't very good.  Here in the U.S., social service agencies have themselves been victims of scandals of leaving kids to die in abusive homes.   I understand his sentiment, though.  This 14 year old and his family should have reported to everyone.  To the police, to the church, to the newspapers, to the congregations.  Everyone.   That way hopefully someone would have done what was right and protected the kids.

The second is that I don't think "rotten to the core" is a rational conclusion.  An understandable one, certainly, but the actions of a room full of people don't allow us to make conclusions on the whole Church in Ireland, and even the action of 10,000 people don't allow us to make conclusions on the 1.2 billion member church worldwide. 

I must say the lack of honor of these people is nevertheless disgusting.  Resign?   Hell, they should resign in disgrace and give all they have and spend the rest of their lives in caring for the victims.

Comment by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on August 2, 2013 at 4:30pm

Ok Bob thanks.

It is not that the Civil Laws (Secular Laws) did not protect children. It is that the Catholic Church spent years covering up clerical child abuse and asserting that it would fix its own house through its own set of rules, i.e. Canon Law. It did not “get” that it was legally bound to report perpetrators of such heinous crimes to the civil police. The civil courts had to obtain court orders against the Church to force them to reveal documents about what it knew.

What these legal proceedings showed is that the Catholic Church had known about these crimes for years and actively covered them up. They paid off victims but only after they got them to swear oaths of silence. There is no need to conflate this or introduce what happens in the secular world. We are not talking or asking about that.

Now when I say the Church is rotten to the core I am not saying or suggesting that all priests are “bad”. However there is a vein that runs up from the grass roots all the way to the Vatican and it flows from EVERY country on the planet where the Catholic Church exists. That is a rational conclusion based on the vast amount of criminal evidence that has be gathered. It has poisoned the institution. It may sound strange coming from me Bob but I do acknowledge the good works done by the majority of priests and religious. I work alongside some in some of the charity work I do. But as Mark Twain said “Denial is not just a river in Egypt”. There is still a lack of accountability within your Church. There have been crimes committed since the Church said it had moved on.  Its own new guidelines are still being ignored. The Catholic Church still does not “get it”. Maybe it is because it is a slow moving dinosaur but that is not good enough. It does not matter if only 10 out of 1.2 billion committed these crimes. It still stinks to the gates of the Vatican if it does not change. There is no confidence that it has. Crimes have been committed in recent years and I am only waiting to hear of the horrors committed in Africa that will emerge over the next few years. These criminals should be rooted out and chased to the gates of hell. Actually no, the jail gates will do because their thousands of victims live by the other ones. You should be even more angry than us Bob.

Comment by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on August 3, 2013 at 1:32am
@Kris - Now, it is way beyond that - Absolutely. If Catholic Bob had come onto this site and said, "I am so sorry for all the abused victims of my religion, and I will help in any, even small way that I can".

He would have been thought of as courageous, honourable, and have my respect. Instead he made excuses. He is the master of excuses, the double talk is amazing. I also fear for the children Africa.
Comment by SteveInCO on August 3, 2013 at 1:36pm

This is what is so infuriating.  It's not so much that some people did atrocious things (though that is bad enough), it is that the organization that they were abusing the authority of, then turns around and covers it up.  That makes them as guilty as the original miscreants.  And then there are swarms of apologists who swarm about and make excuses and, even when (apparently, at least) realizing the evil that is out there, don't seem to realize that their words and their actions (or lack of action, in not leaving the church) actually help to enable it.

Robert instead of coming over here and spreading your squid-ink fog of excuses, you go to your church and tell them that if they not put into place administrative reforms such that priests who engage in this behavior will be defrocked and cut off from the church and reported to the authorities for investigation, YOU will leave the church and take as many with you as you can.  Until this organization does so it is not, and cannot be, worthy of any form of support from you.

Unless of course your character is just as rotten as theirs is.

Comment by Strega on August 3, 2013 at 3:49pm

@SteveInCo - I really, really like this post.  I support your thoughts here completely.

Comment by Dr. Bob on August 4, 2013 at 3:21pm

This is what is so infuriating.  It's not so much that some people did atrocious things (though that is bad enough), it is that the organization that they were abusing the authority of, then turns around and covers it up.

Yep, I agree.

you go to your church and tell them that if they not put into place administrative reforms such that priests who engage in this behavior will be defrocked and cut off from the church and reported to the authorities for investigation, YOU will leave the church and take as many with you as you can.

Many of us have been involved in this work since the revelations first came out of Boston, and the administrative reforms you talk about have been for the most part in place for quite some time.  Looking at the actual data, the incidence rate here in the U.S. peaked during the late-60s and 70s, and has fallen dramatically since 1985. 

Nonetheless, I don't think your conclusions follow.  I don't think I'm obligated to leave the U.S. and take as many people with me as I can when my government does something immoral or commits a cover-up of something immoral.  You clearly don't either, or you wouldn't still be living in Colorado and paying taxes to that government which isn't "worthy of any form of support".

Secondly, I also believe in the rights of the accused, to fairness and due process.  After our administrative reforms, we started to see all kinds of administrative abuses by the American bishops against priests.  Publishing unfounded allegations on websites, suspending or firing people without investigations.   I ended up supporting both Voice of the Faithful and Justice for Priests and Deacons. 

Comment by SteveInCO on August 4, 2013 at 10:35pm

Well there you go again, with another craptastically inapt analogy.  I guess it's one of your favorite obfuscatory modes.

Governments run on force.  You have no choice but to move if dissatisfied; you even recognize that yourself, since you suggested that by I needed to move out of the United States because of its lapses.  And if you do move out of the United States... you have to pick one of its competitor governments.  (And guess what?  None are better, just, perhaps different forms of venality.)

You are not forced to be a Catholic; you can quit any time you are willing to open your fucking eyes and see how evil the Roman Catholic Church is, as an institution.  . I am not even talking about disagreeing with its theology; I am talking about the sheer corruption and venality of the institution itself as a physical, corporate entity.

You don't have to move, you don't have to change jobs (unless, perhaps, you work for the RCC), you don't have to do anything, except stop making excuses for them and stop giving them your money.  You don't even have to sign on with another church, if you don't find any you like better.  Purely voluntary.

You just have to make the choice to think (oh I know that's hard!) about all of the information many here have provided you, and do the right thing.  Leave.


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