Holy Crap, I Picked A Stance On Abortion!
For years, I've taken an absolutely agnostic position on the whole abortion controversy. It has always been my contention that neither science nor religion could possibly know exactly the moment when human life begins in the womb. Since this face is unknowable at present, the debate is pointless because neither side has the facts needed to back up its claims.
But that was the position of an Agnostic Theist. Now, having become a "born again" Atheist, I've finally managed to pick a side on this and that fact has just hit me and amazed me.
Here's what I DO know (and what science DOES know) about when human life begins. It doesn't begin at the moment of conception. A human fetus is not a living conscious being for quite some time after its conception. No, we don't know exactly when it becomes so, but this is only relevant to a "late-term abortion" debate, which is a whole other issue for most people and not what I'm talking about here.
We know that what gets removed from a woman's uterus during an abortion is not a conscious self-aware being. The only counter-evidence to this position comes from religion; specifically from the biblical quote of God saying that he knew us before we were formed in the womb.
When you find yourself an Atheist, it suddenly becomes crystal clear that that isn't an argument at all. Something that "God" supposedly said isn't any kind of argument! Do Christians have a case for saying that abortion is morally wrong and tantamount to murder? No, they absolutely do not, because there is no God and therefore no supreme being ever said any such thing.
When the only "counter-evidence" against a medical precedure is something that primative man scratched out on a scroll in the middle of his goat herd 5,000 years ago, it's safe to say that there is no counter-evidence against that medical procedure.
My point here isn't to start an abortion debate (though I'm gun shy that that's exactly what will happen - please don't). No, my point is to stand here in amazement at the crystal clarity and, dare I say, revelation that Atheism has brought to me! I'm taking the advice of the many Atheists I've read and watched online. Their good advice is to stop taking the religious arguments seriously. Stop giving them credit by responding to them or thinking of them as if they're actual sane rational arguments; they're not.
If your argument comes from religion and nowhere else, it's not an argument! If your opinion is formed by God's opinion, then it has no more validity than if you walked up to me and said that your imaginary friend Bill told you that abortion is murder or that pre-marital sex is a sin, or whatever.
If your mom or brother or best friend told you that Godzilla can see all and knows your baby before it's born, would you take it seriously? What if your loved one tells you that Godzilla loves you and wants to protect you from the evil forces of Mothra? I suspect you would start looking into how much it costs for long-term psychiatric care!
God is just as real as Godzilla and the gigantic fire-breathing dinosaur is not only way cooler than God, but his opinion is just as valid! You say God wants me to do X, but I say that Godzilla thinks you're a sinner and you will spend eternity in Mothra's cacoon! Both points are equally valid. Both arguments share the exact same validity.
I am amazed at how clear and uncomplicated the world can be when there's no God sitting around fucking things up. Things are so much better when I can off-handedly dismiss any religious argument as mass insanity, nonsense, and nothing more!
I'll pray for all of you to get this same clarity. In the name of Godzilla, FSM, and the Jolly Green Giant, AMEN!
But that was the position of an Agnostic Theist. Now, having become a "born again" Atheist, I've finally managed to pick a side on this and that fact has just hit me and amazed me.
Here's what I DO know (and what science DOES know) about when human life begins. It doesn't begin at the moment of conception. A human fetus is not a living conscious being for quite some time after its conception. No, we don't know exactly when it becomes so, but this is only relevant to a "late-term abortion" debate, which is a whole other issue for most people and not what I'm talking about here.
We know that what gets removed from a woman's uterus during an abortion is not a conscious self-aware being. The only counter-evidence to this position comes from religion; specifically from the biblical quote of God saying that he knew us before we were formed in the womb.
When you find yourself an Atheist, it suddenly becomes crystal clear that that isn't an argument at all. Something that "God" supposedly said isn't any kind of argument! Do Christians have a case for saying that abortion is morally wrong and tantamount to murder? No, they absolutely do not, because there is no God and therefore no supreme being ever said any such thing.
When the only "counter-evidence" against a medical precedure is something that primative man scratched out on a scroll in the middle of his goat herd 5,000 years ago, it's safe to say that there is no counter-evidence against that medical procedure.
My point here isn't to start an abortion debate (though I'm gun shy that that's exactly what will happen - please don't). No, my point is to stand here in amazement at the crystal clarity and, dare I say, revelation that Atheism has brought to me! I'm taking the advice of the many Atheists I've read and watched online. Their good advice is to stop taking the religious arguments seriously. Stop giving them credit by responding to them or thinking of them as if they're actual sane rational arguments; they're not.
If your argument comes from religion and nowhere else, it's not an argument! If your opinion is formed by God's opinion, then it has no more validity than if you walked up to me and said that your imaginary friend Bill told you that abortion is murder or that pre-marital sex is a sin, or whatever.
If your mom or brother or best friend told you that Godzilla can see all and knows your baby before it's born, would you take it seriously? What if your loved one tells you that Godzilla loves you and wants to protect you from the evil forces of Mothra? I suspect you would start looking into how much it costs for long-term psychiatric care!
God is just as real as Godzilla and the gigantic fire-breathing dinosaur is not only way cooler than God, but his opinion is just as valid! You say God wants me to do X, but I say that Godzilla thinks you're a sinner and you will spend eternity in Mothra's cacoon! Both points are equally valid. Both arguments share the exact same validity.
I am amazed at how clear and uncomplicated the world can be when there's no God sitting around fucking things up. Things are so much better when I can off-handedly dismiss any religious argument as mass insanity, nonsense, and nothing more!
I'll pray for all of you to get this same clarity. In the name of Godzilla, FSM, and the Jolly Green Giant, AMEN!
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Comment by Reggie on September 22, 2009 at 12:07am -
My point here isn't to start an abortion debate (though I'm gun shy that that's exactly what will happen - please don't).
You know how fruitless that plea is, right?
I am amazed at how clear and uncomplicated the world can be when there's no God sitting around fucking things up.
Some people say something similar when they find God. But, I agree. I felt free and became a better person when I accepted my atheism.
So what flipped the switch from agnostic to taking a stance? Anything in particular? An aggregate of things? Was there a straw that broke the camel's fetus' back?
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Comment by Rox on September 22, 2009 at 1:01am -
Always good to read how people come to change their way of thinking. Thanks for posting it.
Ironically, the google ad on this page is currently for teen-pregnancy.org -- haven't looked too deeply, but apparently they're "Soul Choice," and one of the links is "understanding reincarnation." Variation on Crisis Pregnancy Centers, new age flavored... hmmm...
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Comment by Galen on September 22, 2009 at 1:14am -
@Rox: New Age thinking is better than Old Age thinking, anyday :)
@Reggie: Nothing really flipped any switches. My whole story is up around here somewhere, but there wasn't anything dramatic. Perhaps I'm just getting wiser as I get older, eh?
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Comment by Godless Girl on September 22, 2009 at 1:17am -
I'm glad you feel things are getting more clear for you as you leave the jumble of myths and superstitions behind.
Just throwing a thought into the pile: There are more arguments than theistic ones for being anti-abortion. One example would be the destruction of a future life--that is, you're taking away every opportunity for that fetus to become a viable member of society and have a life worth living. This is not based in theism at all.
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Comment by Galen on September 22, 2009 at 1:38am
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GG, you're right. I suppose I should've said "the most common arguments against abortion" rather than claiming that ALL arguments against abortion are religous. I suppose there could also be valid medical arguments against the procedure itself as well.
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Comment by Eric Strus on September 22, 2009 at 2:57am -
for me it was quite similar with my stance on homosexuality.
i used to be anti-gay for no reason other than my religion.
it hit me like a brick when i became an atheist. now i look back in disgust.
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Comment by Misty: Baytheist Living! on September 22, 2009 at 3:48am -
GG:
These arguments are being rehashed in the old abortion debate thread and the Letter from an Abortion Doctor thread, too.
There really hasn't been any argument put up to defend anti-abortion arguments unless you believe in a soul or whatever. At least not that I've seen.
Destruction of a future life is pretty nil. All sperm is a future life (wankers are killers!). Every egg you flush down the can once a month is a future life... ect.
Personally, I'd go to Godzilla church.
In fact, if there isn't one near me, I'll start one!
"I left my heart in Tokyo. Down by the river..."
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Comment by Doug Reardon on September 22, 2009 at 10:43am -
When you get rid of gods and magic, the universe becomes much simpler to understand.
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Comment by Dave G on September 23, 2009 at 11:17am -
Now Misty, you know that according to the Gospel of Blue Oyster Cult that Godzilla has condemned Tokyo. Oohhh no! There goes Tokyo! Go Go Godzilla!
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