I know, I know... Not this again. I'm sure you all are as sick of hearing this lame-ass defense as I am. However,I recently came across a new spin (new to me) on the Hitler debate. Here is what I encountered posted on a Christian forum in response to one of my posts:

 

In 1998 documents were released by Cornell University from the Nuremberg Trials that revealed Nazi plans to exterminate Christianity at the end of World War II The documents cover the Nuremberg trials of leading Nazis and demonstrate the deliberate genocide of Jews during the Holocaust, in which some six million Jews were killed. One senior member of the U.S. prosecution team, General William Donovan, as part of his work on documenting Nazi war crimes, compiled large amounts of documentation that the Nazis also planned to systematically destroy Christianity.

 

The defense is that Hitler secretly hated Christianity and, despite fairly extensive historical documentation where Hitler expresses his belief in the Christian god, his public support of Christian ideals was all just a well-calculated ruse to rid Germany of Christianity, thus Hitler couldn’t possibly have been a Christian (Catholic… for you fussy-types).

 

Upon investigating this further, this has become a very popular response. Has anyone encountered this before or even read the documents for themselves? Thoughts, comments, insight? No doubt there is more to this than what was posted (in terms of omitted detail).  

Views: 663

Comment by Ron V on December 21, 2011 at 9:22pm

Does it really matter?

Luther's book On the Jews and Their Lies, Christianity, and the Catholic Church paved the way for the holocaust in Europe -

On the Jews and Their Lies

http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/docume...

On Hitler and his opinion of Luther:

http://nobeliefs.com/luther.htm

"In Mein Kampf, Hitler listed Martin Luther as one of the greatest reformers. And similar to Luther in the 1500s, Hitler spoke against the Jews. The Nazi plan to create a German Reich Church laid its bases on the "Spirit of Dr. Martin Luther." The first physical violence against the Jews came on November 9-10 on Kristallnacht (Crystal Night) where the Nazis killed Jews, shattered glass windows, and destroyed hundreds of synagogues, just as Luther had proposed. In Daniel Johah Goldhagen's book, Hitler's Willing Executioners, he writes"

And, look at the people in the horrible videos who are leading the Jews to their execution, and the hundreds of people watching idly- who were they- almost exclusively Christian.

A friend of mine is Polish and his great grandmother lived in Poland during the holocaust.  He is a Christian.  He tells me, according to his family, the Jews were pretty much hated and the people (you guessed it- Christians) were happy to be rid of the bankers who held their mortgages and the businessmen making profits - I could hear in his voice as he told me what was passed down to him a sense of "they deserved it."  I was horrified - and, yes, he is a "strong Christian."

Comment by Ron V on December 21, 2011 at 9:25pm
Comment by Don Leonard on December 22, 2011 at 1:01am
As a former collector of military relics I had several German belt buckles with the words "Gott mit uns" on them which meant "god with us". The words were inscribed on the buckles above the eagle and swastika.
Comment by Daniel Alexander Edelson-Heflin on December 22, 2011 at 1:17am

I don't know, I would not put it past Hitler to hate on a religion derived from Judaism.  Personally I can't imagine Hitler thinking Christian doctrine was anything but a weakness.  Remember, Hitler was probably the greatest politician of his day, and as is common with politicians, power is the main goal.  If you're trying to rule a predominantly Catholic country, why wouldn't you shroud yourself in Catholicism?  Just a thought.

Comment by Albert Bakker on December 22, 2011 at 1:53am

Even though there is/ was a substantial percentage of Germans Catholic, Germany is/ was a predominantly Protestant country.

It is worth quoting from wikipedia here:

The German Christians constituted the strongest Protestant movement in Germany after the 1932 Church elections, with the aim of synthesising Christianity with the ideology of National Socialism. There were various groups within the German Evangelical Church including the Deutsche Christen and opposition factions that later split under the name Confessing Church. The Deutsche Christen factions were united in the goal of establishing a national socialist Protestantism. Deutsche Christen abolished what they considered to be Jewish traditions in Christianity, and some but not all rejected the Old Testament altogether. They rejected academic theology as sterile and not populist enough and were often anti-Catholic. On November 1933, A Protestant mass rally of the Deutsche Christen, which brought together a record 20,000 people, passed three resolutions:

1. Adolf Hitler is the completion of the Reformation,
2. Baptized Jews are to be dismissed from the Church
3. The Old Testament is to be excluded from Sacred Scriptures.

A claim exists that Adolf Hitler converted to Protestantism and joined the German Christians, according to the National Secretary Klundt on April 25, 1933, in Königsberg, Eastern Prussia. An official confirmation or denial was not issued by the Chancellor. But Gerhard Engel, one of Hitler's generals, reported that Hitler had told him: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so" (in an entry in Engel's diary during 1941). Further entries on the speculation of Hitler's religious views.

Comment by Becca on December 22, 2011 at 2:18am

Even though there is/ was a substantial percentage of Germans Catholic, Germany is/ was a predominantly Protestant country.


Had to point this out... scroll down to the statistics part and you will see that currently there are slightly more Catholics than Protestants and the non-religious hold the top slot. Historically what we now consider to be Germany was roughly 2/3 Protestant 1/3 Catholic. It's also important to remember that what we call Germany today hasn't existed for all that long. Not too far in the past a large chunk of Poland and border areas of France and The Czech Republic were also part of Germany making the Catholic/Protestant divide much smaller.

Comment by Becca on December 22, 2011 at 2:18am

Hitler certainly believed in a god, as far as anyone knows he remained Catholic in name at least for his entire life and he did what many other people in power have done: used religion for his benefit when he could and used religion to the determent of others when he could. In many ways Hitler was like any other believer in that he was full of contradictions and like any other person in that his beliefs changed/morphed over time. And let's not forget that there is/was good reason to question Hitler's mental health. The reality of all this is that we can all argue and state our opinions until blue in the face but none of us will ever know in absolute certainty what Hitler believed... I'm not even sure he knew himself.

Comment by Steve on December 22, 2011 at 8:03am

Pretty much what I thought. If there is any truth to it, then he simply saw religion as competition. Nazi Germany made a contract with the Vatican to gain their support. But Christians in of themselves weren't really persecuted unless they spoke up and became a threat.

So it makes perfect sense to dismantle the religious power structures and replace them with something state controlled or a civic religion. It's kind of standard operating for totalitarian regimes. Stalin did the same in Soviet Russia. People worshiped him instead. North Korea took that to the absolute extreme, with Kim Il-Sung being a dead "eternal president". China isn't that extreme, but they only allow state-approved religions

Comment by Ed on December 22, 2011 at 10:00am

The fist raising rhetoric of Adolph Hilter demonstrates the apparent ease at which the masses can be tempted. Hitler was a religion in and unto himself.

Comment by Albert Bakker on December 22, 2011 at 11:54am

That cannot be argued with. Yet the religion of Hitlerism seemed perfectly compatible with all manifestations of Christian beliefs and judging by their public reactions a perfect extension of it for many if not most. Either that or they are all part of the conspiracy too.

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